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When is the stopping point to get it so that our phone system stops scammers. We should migrate off phones except for personal calls to each other (without a nu

When is the stopping point to get it so that our phone system stops scammers. We should migrate off phones except for personal calls to each other (without a number - more of a 2-step authorization, you can call me, I can call you, negotiated via links over email... The phone number is dead, and the only last need for it is scammers and companies that want to record you but you not record them.

jackyinger 8mo ago
While we’re at it let’s get rid of wire transfers, and transactions by bank id / account number. Something more fool proof and transparent is far overdue.
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
  > let’s get rid of wire transfers, and transactions by bank id / account number You can’t sent a Fedwire with only account number [1]. And this woman wasn’t shot because of wires, the man was told to hand over hard cash. [1] https://onrr.gov/document/fedwire.pdf https://onrr.gov/document/fedwire.pdf
abirch 8mo ago
Minimally we should make spoofing harder and use some basic TLS type technology for calls.
g8oz 8mo ago
I thought STIR/SHAKEN was supposed to help. Whatever happened with that?
- almosthere 8mo ago
  I imagine government mismanagement.
RupertSalt 8mo ago
A phone conversation, like an in-person one, is verbal communication, and therefore plausibly deniable -- even when it can be recorded or transcribed. Corporations continue to treat verbal conversations as unique. Voice telephone, at least before TTS and LLM, also gives the humans a fighting chance at discerning emotion and lies. Like it or not, the PSTN is still king in many regards. I find myself using telephone for contact more often than ever. For example, medical offices, despite demanding all our contact info, will use all at their disposal to remind us of appointments, bills, test results, etc. Voice telephone is probably still the best way to negotiate and schedule an appointment, and if you really need to speak to a specific nurse about those labs, it's not going to be email. You know all those Chat Buddy LLMs that corps have put on their websites as front-line CSR? They are usually worthless, because once you glitch out and need unique care or something, the chat LLM or the human chat CSR is disempowered and unable to help. I can't count how many times I thought I'd use the website or chat for convenience (or after-hours) and they wasted 30+ minutes of my time before admitting I must use a voice telephone number for contact for that particular issue. Even with Waymo, or my e-Bank with no branches: calling via voice is the only way to connect the two parties who are empowered to work issues and solve problems. In fact it is even more pervasive, as there is more WFH and the mobile phone is ubiquitous. Your contact in a company may have an extension and a cell number. They may not be at their "desk" but picking up the kids, so they're on their cell, and hands-free, they're using voice. So the PSTN is still the primary channel within the company, as well as with the outside world. Sure, set up a Zoom call, or a Google Meet. It's not for everyone. Requires software infrastructure, advance consent and planning. Won't replace PSTN. PSTN is like IPv4. While there are plenty of new modes of communication, the PSTN is still universal, rather mandatory, and indispensable, so I do not see PSTN-voice going away, but the telecom standards are still developing, such as STIR/SHAKEN, to combat the fraud and spam.

jackyinger 8mo ago

While we’re at it let’s get rid of wire transfers, and transactions by bank id / account number. Something more fool proof and transparent is far overdue.

JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
> let’s get rid of wire transfers, and transactions by bank id / account number You can’t sent a Fedwire with only account number [1]. And this woman wasn’t shot because of wires, the man was told to hand over hard cash. [1] https://onrr.gov/document/fedwire.pdf https://onrr.gov/document/fedwire.pdf

abirch 8mo ago

Minimally we should make spoofing harder and use some basic TLS type technology for calls.

g8oz 8mo ago

I thought STIR/SHAKEN was supposed to help. Whatever happened with that?

almosthere 8mo ago
I imagine government mismanagement.

RupertSalt 8mo ago

A phone conversation, like an in-person one, is verbal communication, and therefore plausibly deniable -- even when it can be recorded or transcribed. Corporations continue to treat verbal conversations as unique. Voice telephone, at least before TTS and LLM, also gives the humans a fighting chance at discerning emotion and lies. Like it or not, the PSTN is still king in many regards. I find myself using telephone for contact more often than ever. For example, medical offices, despite demanding all our contact info, will use all at their disposal to remind us of appointments, bills, test results, etc. Voice telephone is probably still the best way to negotiate and schedule an appointment, and if you really need to speak to a specific nurse about those labs, it's not going to be email. You know all those Chat Buddy LLMs that corps have put on their websites as front-line CSR? They are usually worthless, because once you glitch out and need unique care or something, the chat LLM or the human chat CSR is disempowered and unable to help. I can't count how many times I thought I'd use the website or chat for convenience (or after-hours) and they wasted 30+ minutes of my time before admitting I must use a voice telephone number for contact for that particular issue. Even with Waymo, or my e-Bank with no branches: calling via voice is the only way to connect the two parties who are empowered to work issues and solve problems. In fact it is even more pervasive, as there is more WFH and the mobile phone is ubiquitous. Your contact in a company may have an extension and a cell number. They may not be at their "desk" but picking up the kids, so they're on their cell, and hands-free, they're using voice. So the PSTN is still the primary channel within the company, as well as with the outside world. Sure, set up a Zoom call, or a Google Meet. It's not for everyone. Requires software infrastructure, advance consent and planning. Won't replace PSTN. PSTN is like IPv4. While there are plenty of new modes of communication, the PSTN is still universal, rather mandatory, and indispensable, so I do not see PSTN-voice going away, but the telecom standards are still developing, such as STIR/SHAKEN, to combat the fraud and spam.