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> We're literally living in the 1980s fantasy where you could talk to your computer and it had a personality The difference is that the computer only talks bac

by paganel 9mo ago

> We're literally living in the 1980s fantasy where you could talk to your computer and it had a personality The difference is that the computer only talks back to you as code because you’re paying its owners, with you not being part of the owners. I find it really baffling that people put up with this. What will you do when Alphabet or Altman will demand 10 times the money out of you fir the privilege of their computer talking to you in programming code?

_aavaa_ 9mo ago
Use one of the open models that are also getting better and easier to run every year?
- paganel 9mo ago
  Which are those open ones? And how are they going to get their billions of dollars worth of investment back? Even Google Maps used to be virtually free until it wasn’t, at a fraction of the investment cost.
  - _aavaa_ 9mo ago
    For starters: Qwen, GLM, Kimi, Llama. How they run their business is none of my business. I can download the weights right now and use them as I see fit under the open source license terms. Google Maps was never a self contained binary you could download. But even now it remains free to use.
    - paganel 9mo ago
      I’m only familiar with Llama, but as far as I understood it’s in no way at the same level as Claude or Gemini, so in fact you’d still be a lot less productive compared to those using those products directly. That’s the thing, us as programmers are supposed to be creators/makers, not mere consumers/users, but I do agree that that has been changing as of late.
      - _aavaa_ 9mo ago
        They are not the same level, but that may be fine. As for productivity, I don't take that as a given. Maybe in a few years we'll be at the point where AI is better than AI + human, but we aren't there yet. The other models may be faster are pumping out code, but if you're building in the wrong direction more code is more bad. > us as programmers are supposed to be creators/makers, not mere consumers/users But that's a false dichotomy. As a programmer I am very much a consumer of the language I use, the IDE, the compiler, and of most of my dependencies. (to say nothing of the OS and the hardware). I, and I'd wager most people around here, haven't and are aren't individually building at all layers of that stack at once.
toddmorrow 9mo ago
i have preemptively switched to Deepseek. they'll never remove the free tier because that's how they stick it to Scam Altman and the like

by paganel 9mo ago

_aavaa_ 9mo ago

Use one of the open models that are also getting better and easier to run every year?

paganel 9mo ago
Which are those open ones? And how are they going to get their billions of dollars worth of investment back? Even Google Maps used to be virtually free until it wasn’t, at a fraction of the investment cost.
- _aavaa_ 9mo ago
  For starters: Qwen, GLM, Kimi, Llama. How they run their business is none of my business. I can download the weights right now and use them as I see fit under the open source license terms. Google Maps was never a self contained binary you could download. But even now it remains free to use.
  - paganel 9mo ago
    I’m only familiar with Llama, but as far as I understood it’s in no way at the same level as Claude or Gemini, so in fact you’d still be a lot less productive compared to those using those products directly. That’s the thing, us as programmers are supposed to be creators/makers, not mere consumers/users, but I do agree that that has been changing as of late.
    - _aavaa_ 9mo ago
      They are not the same level, but that may be fine. As for productivity, I don't take that as a given. Maybe in a few years we'll be at the point where AI is better than AI + human, but we aren't there yet. The other models may be faster are pumping out code, but if you're building in the wrong direction more code is more bad. > us as programmers are supposed to be creators/makers, not mere consumers/users But that's a false dichotomy. As a programmer I am very much a consumer of the language I use, the IDE, the compiler, and of most of my dependencies. (to say nothing of the OS and the hardware). I, and I'd wager most people around here, haven't and are aren't individually building at all layers of that stack at once.

toddmorrow 9mo ago

i have preemptively switched to Deepseek. they'll never remove the free tier because that's how they stick it to Scam Altman and the like