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I felt this was telling: > The typical golf course covers about a square kilometer. We have 40,000 of them around the world being meticulously maintained. If t
by hliyan 8mo ago
I felt this was telling:
> The typical golf course covers about a square kilometer. We have 40,000 of them around the world being meticulously maintained. If the same could be said for solar farms we would be almost 10% of the way there.
To me, it's one of many ways in which markets fail to allocate resources to the most pressing problems.
- pfdietz 8mo agoLand is cheap, so why not golf courses?
- chongli 8mo agoMarkets allocate resources based on supply and demand. Individuals don’t demand solutions to diffuse problems. It’s tragedy of the commons every time.
- edwcross 8mo agoNice expression, but the book by the same name is fatally flawed in its science.
- roenxi 8mo ago> Individuals don’t demand solutions to diffuse problems Markets solve diffuse problems really well, people signal how much their section of the problem is worth solving and the market judges whether the overall problem can be solved cost effectively. Getting food to everyone is a diffuse problem for example. Tragedy of the commons is different. Markets don't solve how to solve owning things in common and the usual market recommendation is not to do that.
- dotancohen 8mo agoHow much money does a golf course bring in yearly? How onerous are the regulations? How much money would a solar farm bring in yearly? How onerous would the regulations be?
- ytpete 8mo agoAlso what is the capitol cost to stand up a golf course vs. a solar farm of equal size? I would imagine solar requires locking up a much larger investment.
- pfdietz 8mo agoLet's compare to agriculture. An acre used to make hay might bring in $500/year. An acre used for PV might bring in $25,000/year. If PV uses too much land, do we want to talk about what agriculture is doing?
- rdtsc 8mo ago> If PV uses too much land, do we want to talk about what agriculture is doing? If we’ve worried about land why not go for nuclear? Just plant nuclear reactor seeds add fertilizer and power plants spring up in a few months. See it doesn’t quite work that way. It brushes away too many variables.
- hedora 8mo ago
- hliyan 8mo agoI think you have misunderstood the term "tragedy of the commons", which is a phenomenon distinct from a market failure. Also, "markets allocate resources based on supply and demand" is, I believe an oversimplification one should not carry beyond Economics 101. If that were sufficient to explain the totality of market behavior, especially at large scale, then the remainder of the discipline of economics need not exist.
- Rastonbury 8mo agoThat comment throws all econ 101 in the wrong way. A land owners decision to build a golf course over solar farm is a decision based on competing land uses which are demand/supply for land and the potential services you could provide on that land. Which is why you don't often see solar farms or farms or power plants in the middle of cities...
- burnt-resistor 8mo agoThere is no magic hand, only a Tragedy of the Commons and greedy individuals doing whatever. (Federally, there is at present time little-to-no prosecution of fraudsters or tax cheats. Economically, it's basically The Purge.) Appropriate regulations and enforcement is what is missing but ⅔ of country is brainwashed by billionaires and Fox News that "gubberment bad" and "regulations are communism".
- hedora 8mo agoFor values of ⅔ ~= 40% and rapidly falling. https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-approval-rating-falls-across-every-major-issue-in-new-poll/ar-AA1VzB6Y https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-approval-ratin... https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trumps-approval-rating-slips-39-economy-weighs-reutersipsos-poll-finds-2025-12-16/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trumps-approval-rating-slip... Assuming we're even a semblance of a democracy in 2028, the US is about to see its biggest course correction since the New Deal. I think this will include a return to a free market economy. If I got to decide what that would look like, it'd involve a combination of claw-back of corrupt subsidies, an army of independent prosecutors, armed with the power of federalization, reorganization and secondary public offerings of reformed criminal enterprises. The "good guys" companies would only be subject to monopoly busting; their investors would not take as big of a bath. The crazy thing is that, as I get older, I've found I've gone from the hot-head to the voice of reason in conversations like this.
- deaux 8mo agoRapidly falling? Looks like it's hit an equilibrium since October, >=40% at this point is hilariously high and proves the point well enough. > If I got to decide what that would look like, it'd involve a combination of claw-back of corrupt subsidies I'm sure you're aware that the overwhelming majority of these go to agriculture. If you genuinely think whoever gets elected will be running on stopping those, that's blindly optimistic.
- bawolff 8mo agoI don't think its lack of land that is preventing 10% of our energy coming from solar. Do you really believe that without golf courses there, the land would be used for solar instead?