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Problem is often what to build so that it's simple enough, yet significant to learn something. Fizzbuzz is simple, but not really substantial to really learn a

by iamwil 18y ago

Problem is often what to build so that it's simple enough, yet significant to learn something. Fizzbuzz is simple, but not really substantial to really learn anything about a language (unless it's low level assembly, I guess). I've seen someone say they use "Petals around the Rose" game to learn. However, not all problems will show you the neat and special things about a programming language. Currently, I'm taking a hard look at Lua and Love a la HN. I've decided to replicate Pong, and the Hungryboids example from Ruby and Shoes. Since Lua is a prototype object system, it's a little bit of getting use to, especially since my use of Javascript has been minimal. Just writing a Vector class has been enlightening as to how to construct objects in Lua. Like Javascript's objects, Lua uses tables. In a way, it's fairly elegant that complex language conventions can be built from the ground up using just tables. But on the other hand, everyone has to build it from the ground up every time, and scoping rules are a bit of a headache.

silentbicycle 18y ago
Have you looked at Project Euler (http://projecteuler.net http://projecteuler.net)? It's a series of math puzzles, solvable in any language. Once you solve each, you can read other people's solutions, which is a great way to to learn algorithmic tricks (and humility!). You can also compare similar code across a dozen or so languages. I started doing PE to brush up on math, but it's a great programming warm-up. FWIW, you can build a class-based object system in Lua pretty easily. Prototype systems are largely a superset of class based systems -- make a Class object. (I prefer prototype to class systems, personally. Also, Lua is one of my favorite languages.) > everyone has to build it from the ground up every time Don't forget about libraries. Check out LuaRocks.
- iamwil 18y ago
  Yeah, come to think of it, I have heard of project Euler. I've always forgotten about it, however. I'll try to keep it in mind. I finally got a basic barebones class system up and running in Lua (without inheritance though). I can see the flexibility and power of the thing. But with power, well, you kinda have to reinvent the wheel for the tools that you're use to. I figured it was a good exercise anyway. I was tickled by the name LuaRocks. RubyGems. We're getting better at naming things...
  - silentbicycle 18y ago
    The Lua way is to add a few meta-features to the language that let you extend it with other features as necessary, rather than building it in.* It keeps the core language small, fast, and easy to understand. You can build an object system, complete with an elaborate meta-object protocol or whatever, and then just shove in a library and take it for granted, if you want. (Where you felt an acute lack of an OO system, I was missing map, fold, and the maybe monad.) Besides, having the flexibility to reinvent means you can also invent. Sometimes an object system is useful, but sometimes it just gets in the way, and I don't think such things should be in the core language.

by iamwil 18y ago

silentbicycle 18y ago

Have you looked at Project Euler (http://projecteuler.net http://projecteuler.net)? It's a series of math puzzles, solvable in any language. Once you solve each, you can read other people's solutions, which is a great way to to learn algorithmic tricks (and humility!). You can also compare similar code across a dozen or so languages. I started doing PE to brush up on math, but it's a great programming warm-up. FWIW, you can build a class-based object system in Lua pretty easily. Prototype systems are largely a superset of class based systems -- make a Class object. (I prefer prototype to class systems, personally. Also, Lua is one of my favorite languages.) > everyone has to build it from the ground up every time Don't forget about libraries. Check out LuaRocks.

iamwil 18y ago
Yeah, come to think of it, I have heard of project Euler. I've always forgotten about it, however. I'll try to keep it in mind. I finally got a basic barebones class system up and running in Lua (without inheritance though). I can see the flexibility and power of the thing. But with power, well, you kinda have to reinvent the wheel for the tools that you're use to. I figured it was a good exercise anyway. I was tickled by the name LuaRocks. RubyGems. We're getting better at naming things...
- silentbicycle 18y ago
  The Lua way is to add a few meta-features to the language that let you extend it with other features as necessary, rather than building it in.* It keeps the core language small, fast, and easy to understand. You can build an object system, complete with an elaborate meta-object protocol or whatever, and then just shove in a library and take it for granted, if you want. (Where you felt an acute lack of an OO system, I was missing map, fold, and the maybe monad.) Besides, having the flexibility to reinvent means you can also invent. Sometimes an object system is useful, but sometimes it just gets in the way, and I don't think such things should be in the core language.