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Europe should stop tolerating these sabotages and go to war with Russia and take advantage of their weakened military due to their war with Ukraine

ddorian43 8mo ago
will you go to the frontline?
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- AmbroseBierce 8mo ago
  You know what, yeah, I will, in exchange for EU citizenship and it must be fully financed so we have available the best weaponry money can buy (and a written contract that has a big payout for my parents if I die in combat)
  - Nextgrid 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - direwolf20 8mo ago
      20% extra tax doesn't seem that high a price for not being sent to fight in a war
      - Nextgrid 8mo ago
        Only if you can’t fly to a neutral low-tax country and enjoy low tax and not being sent to war. But you do you, I do me. (And of course, if they don’t have a problem with stealing over half of the fruits of your labor, do you really think they won’t send you to fight for them when the chips are down anyway?)
        direwolf20 8mo ago
        Where do you live? 50% tax and 25% rent is typical in the USA as well, isn't it?
        Nextgrid 8mo ago
        50% tax is absolutely not typical in the US as far as I know unless you can provide sources? I thought it was around 30% thanks to all the various schemes and deductions one can use? I live in Bulgaria. My effective tax rate here is around 20%. Next destination is Dubai which is even lower, because again, if rich politican assholes’ kids are going there to live the good life, why not follow them in their grift? (Would I recommend Bulgaria? Well the tech money you make is enough to live like a king and privately pay for all the services a government is supposed to provide… but then again it’s no different from the UK where I also had to pay for everything privately except I could barely afford it because I also had to burn 50% of my income on taxes with nothing in return, so from that perspective Bulgaria wins. Make of it what you will. Switzerland appears to be the only place with a functioning government and fair taxes, except the property Ponzi is reaching such breaking points that whatever you save on taxes is getting burnt immediately on rent, so you’re no better)
    - MattPalmer1086 8mo ago
      But you do get decent healthcare without the risk of bankruptcy.
      - Nextgrid 8mo ago
        “Decent” in the form of hopefully not dying while you’re on the waiting list. And bankruptcy is only a problem when you actually have significant assets, something not easy to acquire in western EU countries. If you’re the average under-30 western EU resident, bankruptcy won’t make a major difference in your lifestyle, it’ll be shit either way.
    - ThePowerOfFuet 8mo ago
      >any kind of respectable wage taxed at over 50% with rent being over half of your post-tax earnings. What sort of easily-disprovable horseshit is this? https://www.economie.gouv.fr/particuliers/impots-et-fiscalite/gerer-mon-impot-sur-le-revenu/comment-calculer-votre-impot-dapres-le-bareme-de-limpot-sur-le-revenu https://www.economie.gouv.fr/particuliers/impots-et-fiscalit... Income 11k-30k taxed at 11%, 30k-80k at 30%. 80k puts you in the top 5% of wage earners. If you are spending an amount which rounds to zero on world-class healthcare, all of a sudden rent being even half your post-tax income (which would indicate you are living near the edge of your means, if not beyond) isn't so bad.
      - Nextgrid 8mo ago
        80k is 6.6k/month. That’s pre-tax, but for the benefit of the doubt let’s go with this figure instead of the post-tax. Have you seen the prices of stuff nowadays? Whether energy, cars, technology or rent? 6.6k doesn’t go far at all anymore. Of course the post-tax is even lower. > which would indicate you are living near the edge of your means Real-estate being an investment means its price will adjust to extract maximum value. There’s an entire industry there that makes sure you can’t just work around this problem by adjusting your living standard or eating less Starbucks & avocado. Move to a farther away place? Well now you’re spending that rent reduction on transport instead. Move to a lower quality place? Well now you’re spending it on higher energy bills trying to keep the house warm. Willing to sacrifice all your social life and move in the middle of nowhere with ultra-cheap rent? Most roles are “hybrid” to prevent this very scenario, so can’t do that either.
        ThePowerOfFuet 8mo ago
        >Have you seen the prices of stuff nowadays? Whether energy, cars, technology or rent? 6.6k doesn’t go far at all anymore. Of course the post-tax is even lower. You said tax would be "over 50%". I disproved it. Stop moving the goalposts.
- DyslexicAtheist 8mo ago
  absolutely
nayroclade 8mo ago
NATO could certainly rollover the Russian army in a conventional war, but that was just as true before the Ukrainian war. The idea that Russia is/was a serious threat is a convenient fiction: It helps maintain Russia's image as a superpower, and it provides a justification for the existence of NATO and the associated military industrial complex that supports it. What is true however, is that Russia does possess a huge arsenal of nuclear and other weapons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_weapons_of_mass_des... Despite Putin's posturing, Russia's never going to risk deploying them in a conflict with Ukraine. But in an actual war between NATO/Europe and Russia, with the regime facing an existential threat, then there's a very good chance they would. But even before it got to that point, the nature of the conflict itself would make nuclear escalation very likely. Both sides would be firing huge numbers of missiles, attempting to gain air superiority by wiping out the other's own missile launchers, radar bases, etc. With that many missiles flying, and stressed people and automated systems making split-second decisions, it's very likely that an error or miscalculation would result in an accidental nuclear strike, at which point it would be impossible to put the genie back in the bottle.
- AmbroseBierce 8mo ago
  This of course assumes that you are not just delaying the inevitable and giving time for Russia to recover will just make the nuclear escalation worse when it happens (not if it happens)
- LorenPechtel 8mo ago
  Which is why we must never give Ukraine enough firepower to pose a threat to the Russian regime. But that does not mean we can't arm them with long range stuff, just in fairly small quantities. A Tomahawk can't take down Russia. A Tomahawk a day raining down in areas away from the battle front--that can make Russia very much want to quit provoking them. Provide such weapons on the basis that the supply will be immediately cut off at status quo ante.
JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
> Europe should stop tolerating these sabotages and go to war with Russia Unnecessary. Just (a) pursue and seize its shadow fleet and (b) give Ukraine long-range weapons. (And radars so you can profile Russia's air defences.) Russia is operating so comically outside its circle of competence, material constraints and international law that you don't even have to go kinetic to hurt it.

ddorian43 8mo ago

will you go to the frontline?

deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
AmbroseBierce 8mo ago
You know what, yeah, I will, in exchange for EU citizenship and it must be fully financed so we have available the best weaponry money can buy (and a written contract that has a big payout for my parents if I die in combat)
- Nextgrid 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - direwolf20 8mo ago
    20% extra tax doesn't seem that high a price for not being sent to fight in a war
    - Nextgrid 8mo ago
      Only if you can’t fly to a neutral low-tax country and enjoy low tax and not being sent to war. But you do you, I do me. (And of course, if they don’t have a problem with stealing over half of the fruits of your labor, do you really think they won’t send you to fight for them when the chips are down anyway?)
      - direwolf20 8mo ago
        Where do you live? 50% tax and 25% rent is typical in the USA as well, isn't it?
        Nextgrid 8mo ago
        50% tax is absolutely not typical in the US as far as I know unless you can provide sources? I thought it was around 30% thanks to all the various schemes and deductions one can use? I live in Bulgaria. My effective tax rate here is around 20%. Next destination is Dubai which is even lower, because again, if rich politican assholes’ kids are going there to live the good life, why not follow them in their grift? (Would I recommend Bulgaria? Well the tech money you make is enough to live like a king and privately pay for all the services a government is supposed to provide… but then again it’s no different from the UK where I also had to pay for everything privately except I could barely afford it because I also had to burn 50% of my income on taxes with nothing in return, so from that perspective Bulgaria wins. Make of it what you will. Switzerland appears to be the only place with a functioning government and fair taxes, except the property Ponzi is reaching such breaking points that whatever you save on taxes is getting burnt immediately on rent, so you’re no better)
  - MattPalmer1086 8mo ago
    But you do get decent healthcare without the risk of bankruptcy.
    - Nextgrid 8mo ago
      “Decent” in the form of hopefully not dying while you’re on the waiting list. And bankruptcy is only a problem when you actually have significant assets, something not easy to acquire in western EU countries. If you’re the average under-30 western EU resident, bankruptcy won’t make a major difference in your lifestyle, it’ll be shit either way.
  - ThePowerOfFuet 8mo ago
    >any kind of respectable wage taxed at over 50% with rent being over half of your post-tax earnings. What sort of easily-disprovable horseshit is this? https://www.economie.gouv.fr/particuliers/impots-et-fiscalite/gerer-mon-impot-sur-le-revenu/comment-calculer-votre-impot-dapres-le-bareme-de-limpot-sur-le-revenu https://www.economie.gouv.fr/particuliers/impots-et-fiscalit... Income 11k-30k taxed at 11%, 30k-80k at 30%. 80k puts you in the top 5% of wage earners. If you are spending an amount which rounds to zero on world-class healthcare, all of a sudden rent being even half your post-tax income (which would indicate you are living near the edge of your means, if not beyond) isn't so bad.
    - Nextgrid 8mo ago
      80k is 6.6k/month. That’s pre-tax, but for the benefit of the doubt let’s go with this figure instead of the post-tax. Have you seen the prices of stuff nowadays? Whether energy, cars, technology or rent? 6.6k doesn’t go far at all anymore. Of course the post-tax is even lower. > which would indicate you are living near the edge of your means Real-estate being an investment means its price will adjust to extract maximum value. There’s an entire industry there that makes sure you can’t just work around this problem by adjusting your living standard or eating less Starbucks & avocado. Move to a farther away place? Well now you’re spending that rent reduction on transport instead. Move to a lower quality place? Well now you’re spending it on higher energy bills trying to keep the house warm. Willing to sacrifice all your social life and move in the middle of nowhere with ultra-cheap rent? Most roles are “hybrid” to prevent this very scenario, so can’t do that either.
      - ThePowerOfFuet 8mo ago
        >Have you seen the prices of stuff nowadays? Whether energy, cars, technology or rent? 6.6k doesn’t go far at all anymore. Of course the post-tax is even lower. You said tax would be "over 50%". I disproved it. Stop moving the goalposts.
DyslexicAtheist 8mo ago
absolutely

nayroclade 8mo ago

NATO could certainly rollover the Russian army in a conventional war, but that was just as true before the Ukrainian war. The idea that Russia is/was a serious threat is a convenient fiction: It helps maintain Russia's image as a superpower, and it provides a justification for the existence of NATO and the associated military industrial complex that supports it. What is true however, is that Russia does possess a huge arsenal of nuclear and other weapons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_weapons_of_mass_des... Despite Putin's posturing, Russia's never going to risk deploying them in a conflict with Ukraine. But in an actual war between NATO/Europe and Russia, with the regime facing an existential threat, then there's a very good chance they would. But even before it got to that point, the nature of the conflict itself would make nuclear escalation very likely. Both sides would be firing huge numbers of missiles, attempting to gain air superiority by wiping out the other's own missile launchers, radar bases, etc. With that many missiles flying, and stressed people and automated systems making split-second decisions, it's very likely that an error or miscalculation would result in an accidental nuclear strike, at which point it would be impossible to put the genie back in the bottle.

AmbroseBierce 8mo ago
This of course assumes that you are not just delaying the inevitable and giving time for Russia to recover will just make the nuclear escalation worse when it happens (not if it happens)
LorenPechtel 8mo ago
Which is why we must never give Ukraine enough firepower to pose a threat to the Russian regime. But that does not mean we can't arm them with long range stuff, just in fairly small quantities. A Tomahawk can't take down Russia. A Tomahawk a day raining down in areas away from the battle front--that can make Russia very much want to quit provoking them. Provide such weapons on the basis that the supply will be immediately cut off at status quo ante.

JumpCrisscross 8mo ago

> Europe should stop tolerating these sabotages and go to war with Russia Unnecessary. Just (a) pursue and seize its shadow fleet and (b) give Ukraine long-range weapons. (And radars so you can profile Russia's air defences.) Russia is operating so comically outside its circle of competence, material constraints and international law that you don't even have to go kinetic to hurt it.