3 ms·

> You also probably don't use heroin. Everyone knows it's a bad idea About 1–12 months after using heroin, only 23%–38% become addicted [1]. Occasional and con

> You also probably don't use heroin. Everyone knows it's a bad idea About 1–12 months after using heroin, only 23%–38% become addicted [1]. Occasional and controlled heroin users do in fact exist and are documented [2]. And, most famously, the use of heroin by American soldiers during the Vietnam war was largely situational [3]. So what "everyone knows" here is not very impressive. I still very strongly believe you'd be a fool or at least reckless to try heroin, but it really isn't the bogeyman people want it to be. [1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2681168 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/... [2] https://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/3906/ https://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/3906/ [3] https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.64.12_Suppl.38 https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.64.12...

xeckr 8mo ago
>only 23%–38% become addicted Wow, only Russian roulette with 2 bullets odds?
- D-Machine 8mo ago
  Yup, hence why only a reckless person or fool would try it. But, since only a minority of people get addicted to heroin (i.e. the evils of heroin are overstated), and since no one is actually seriously arguing that viewing TikTok is as risky (23-38% chance after exposure) as trying heroin, or has as bad side effects, I think it reveals that comparisons to heroin use in arguments against TikTok are hyperbolic and disconnected from reality, by empirical data.
  - xeckr 8mo ago
    >I think it reveals that comparisons to heroin use in arguments against TikTok are hyperbolic and disconnected from reality, by empirical data. I don't think that follows from your premises. Who is overstating the evils of heroin? Plenty of people argue that viewing TikTok (or AI-optimized short-form feeds) has bad side effects, mostly in the direction of eroding your ability to pay attention to anything less stimulating. One thing that makes heroin more benign is that it's "finished" in some sense. The drug trade will find more addictive substances (e.g. fentanyl), but a vial of pure heroin isn't going to gradually become more addictive over time in ways that are imperceptible to the user but visible on the backend because the loss function trends downward.
wasmainiac 8mo ago
I don’t get it, is this some kind of gotcha? Have you walked down the skid row of any large city? Heroin and well other drugs now are a problem, saying otherwise is delusional. Those people need help.
- D-Machine 8mo ago
  > I don’t get it, is this some kind of gotcha? Only for people who think comparing TikTok to heroin is some kind of gotcha. >Have you walked down the skid row of any large city? Heroin and well other drugs now are a problem, saying otherwise is delusional. Those people need help. For sure. Two minutes from where I live, at a main intersection, they hang emergency Naloxone injection kits, in public, where anyone can grab them, on the trees and walls of buildings. I presume so addicts can save each other in cases of accidental overdoses. Of what relevance was this all to TikTok again? And why are we comparing scrolling a phone app to literal actual heroin? Even when, empirically and factually, heroin is in fact not addictive for the majority of people? Comparisons between TikTok and heroin are deranged and simplistic, but this is made all the more embarrassing when you realize that a dance with heroin is in fact more likely than not to just be... not the thing everyone is afraid of?
  - wasmainiac 8mo ago
    > Only for people who think comparing TikTok to heroin is some kind of gotcha. Do you have family? My cousins, aunts, even my mom is on it. And they all watch the most brain dead garbage. Even when they come to visit me out in the middle of no where, they still do it. The only explanation I have is that it is addictive, to not to all, but some (like you pointed out with H). Now based on how much time they spend on it I think it is harmful for them and society at large. It’s worth regulating like some non physical drug, afaik I think that is the comparison people here are making.
    - D-Machine 8mo ago
      > Do you have family? My cousins, aunts, even my mom is on it. Yes, I too am deeply traumatized from having family and friends... shudder... using Social Media. Anyway, not sure of the relevance of the question. Not sure how "time spent" on a thing is proof of its badness either, but then, people comparing TikTok to heroin are clearly not generally interested in things like clarity and quantification.

xeckr 8mo ago

>only 23%–38% become addicted Wow, only Russian roulette with 2 bullets odds?

D-Machine 8mo ago
Yup, hence why only a reckless person or fool would try it. But, since only a minority of people get addicted to heroin (i.e. the evils of heroin are overstated), and since no one is actually seriously arguing that viewing TikTok is as risky (23-38% chance after exposure) as trying heroin, or has as bad side effects, I think it reveals that comparisons to heroin use in arguments against TikTok are hyperbolic and disconnected from reality, by empirical data.
- xeckr 8mo ago
  >I think it reveals that comparisons to heroin use in arguments against TikTok are hyperbolic and disconnected from reality, by empirical data. I don't think that follows from your premises. Who is overstating the evils of heroin? Plenty of people argue that viewing TikTok (or AI-optimized short-form feeds) has bad side effects, mostly in the direction of eroding your ability to pay attention to anything less stimulating. One thing that makes heroin more benign is that it's "finished" in some sense. The drug trade will find more addictive substances (e.g. fentanyl), but a vial of pure heroin isn't going to gradually become more addictive over time in ways that are imperceptible to the user but visible on the backend because the loss function trends downward.

wasmainiac 8mo ago

I don’t get it, is this some kind of gotcha? Have you walked down the skid row of any large city? Heroin and well other drugs now are a problem, saying otherwise is delusional. Those people need help.

D-Machine 8mo ago
> I don’t get it, is this some kind of gotcha? Only for people who think comparing TikTok to heroin is some kind of gotcha. >Have you walked down the skid row of any large city? Heroin and well other drugs now are a problem, saying otherwise is delusional. Those people need help. For sure. Two minutes from where I live, at a main intersection, they hang emergency Naloxone injection kits, in public, where anyone can grab them, on the trees and walls of buildings. I presume so addicts can save each other in cases of accidental overdoses. Of what relevance was this all to TikTok again? And why are we comparing scrolling a phone app to literal actual heroin? Even when, empirically and factually, heroin is in fact not addictive for the majority of people? Comparisons between TikTok and heroin are deranged and simplistic, but this is made all the more embarrassing when you realize that a dance with heroin is in fact more likely than not to just be... not the thing everyone is afraid of?
- wasmainiac 8mo ago
  > Only for people who think comparing TikTok to heroin is some kind of gotcha. Do you have family? My cousins, aunts, even my mom is on it. And they all watch the most brain dead garbage. Even when they come to visit me out in the middle of no where, they still do it. The only explanation I have is that it is addictive, to not to all, but some (like you pointed out with H). Now based on how much time they spend on it I think it is harmful for them and society at large. It’s worth regulating like some non physical drug, afaik I think that is the comparison people here are making.
  - D-Machine 8mo ago
    > Do you have family? My cousins, aunts, even my mom is on it. Yes, I too am deeply traumatized from having family and friends... shudder... using Social Media. Anyway, not sure of the relevance of the question. Not sure how "time spent" on a thing is proof of its badness either, but then, people comparing TikTok to heroin are clearly not generally interested in things like clarity and quantification.