2 ms·

I don't think people typically have so much choice about it. Everyone is just trying to feed their families and enjoy their life. The job market is a little tou

I don't think people typically have so much choice about it. Everyone is just trying to feed their families and enjoy their life. The job market is a little tough right now, I think, for software engineers. No? I know a few personally that left their stable job to be hired and fired in the same month and remain unemployed six months later. Very sad.

mcmcmc 9mo ago
What a ridiculous excuse. People who join ICE to brutalize minorities and protestors are just trying to feed their families too, then. No? Working for Microsoft doesn’t make them bad engineers or bad people, but it does make them Microsoft employees. And they get to bear its reputation whether they want to or not. If it makes them uncomfortable then they should make a change or grow thicker skin. Oversaturation of the labor supply for software engineers has been looming for a while now. Gen Z was sold on infinite growth in the ZIRP era which was never going to happen, but everyone still jumped in. What we’re seeing is structural unemployment. Not everyone’s gonna make it.
- trimethylpurine 9mo ago
  Do you have kids? If not, I agree with you. Make the hard decision and take a loss. And thank you for your sacrifice. If you do, I can't agree with you. Also I wouldn't compare software development for a marketing company with a violent disagreeable effort. There's bad and there's worse, objectively. Anyway, not saying you're wrong, but I'm not so quick to judge someone by a job that they probably hate. Or to wrap 100,000 people in the same blanket. We're all individuals. No one should be judged by the actions of others.
  - bionsystem 9mo ago
    There are companies I wouldn't candidate for, even with kids I think, although it's hard to say, I don't have kids, and apparently there is a mind-shift happening when you get one. Oracle, Palantir come to mind. But maybe not Microsoft, I don't know about that one. It's probably bad, but maybe not "I prefer to watch my kids starving" kind of bad.
  - mcmcmc 9mo ago
    Having kids is also a bullshit excuse. Choosing comfort over conscience is your prerogative but you’re just teaching your kids the same values. Yeah, tech monopolist that enables genocide to contemporary gestapo isn’t an equal comparison. But my point was that you can’t ignore the moral hazards of employment by handwaving “gotta eat somehow”. There are a million ways to feed your kids. Saying you have to work a high paid job to feed them non-GMO certified organic produce from Erewhon because that’s the only standard of living you can possibly survive with, that’s a choice. I also want to reiterate that I’m not judging the people who choose to work there. I’m just saying that by signing the employment contract they accept the reasonable public perception that the products they work on are shit. And to some marginal degree, they are complicit in all their employer’s wrongdoings.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
    - trimethylpurine 9mo ago
      Your commentary doesn't come off as honorable or righteous in any way to me. It comes off as self centered and self righteous. As if we all owe it to you to put you before our children. I don't know if that's your intention but that's what I'm reading. I genuinely hope you don't agree with that reading, because I doubt you'd have a nice life with that outlook. You'd be very unlikable.
      - mcmcmc 9mo ago
        What I’d consider unlikable is implying that someone might have no choice but to work for Microsoft in order to provide for their family. It carries with it an air of privilege and condescension implying that working a lesser job or for lesser pay would be insufficient to provide for a family’s basic needs.
        trimethylpurine 9mo ago
        What lesser job? People are unemployed after six months. Meanwhile MS hired other people for less to replace those that left. Nobody won here. It's not about "lesser" jobs being actually lesser. The point is that you don't actually have a choice. Big companies that nobody likes are in control of the economy and you can't do anything except join the unemployed until you get rehired from the pool of desperate people willing to do their bidding. (All of this with a grain of salt. Not literally everyone is in this situation, but there are certainly many who are.) I'm just saying, maybe don't be so quick to judge.
- TacticalCoder 9mo ago
  > People who join ICE to brutalize minorities and protestors are just trying to feed their families too, then. 1400 ISIS (the islamist state) terrorists who made their way to the US, identified by the DHS. https://www.dhs.gov/wow https://www.dhs.gov/wow Look at the list here. 2084 pages already, 12 entries per page: that's 25 000 criminals. They're listing their crimes. 25 000 criminals already arrested is a huge lot. Be honest with yourself and think about the victims. I'd say a lot of the people joining ICE do believe the US has already enough criminals that are US citizens and want to help stop the insanity that is mass uncontrolled migration. Out of 600 000 people arrested by ICE, as I understand it already 25 000 are violent criminals that we know of. That's more nearly 5% of all those arrested. 1 in 20 people. Where do you draw the limit? You want full open borders, but at what cost? I read a lot of "Arrested for: kidnapping, rape". Is, say, 1 in 100 people coming in being a criminal OK? Where do you draw the line? Dems are literally fighting so that sanctuary cities do not hand over convicted criminals to ICE: so that one day they can be released in the streets. Is this what you want to fight for? Are you that convinced, from your moral high ground where you judge Microsoft employees and ICE agents, that you'll be on the right side of history?
  - int_19h 9mo ago
    > Are you that convinced, from your moral high ground where you judge Microsoft employees and ICE agents, that you'll be on the right side of history? Yes. It really isn't difficult to figure out who the bad guys are, at the moment.
    - tovlier 9mo ago
      [dead]
  - ngcazz 9mo ago
    Blackshirt elegy over here folks.
  - bionsystem 9mo ago
    You are missing out the entire point. In a justice system, a single innocent in prison is a thousand times worse than a free criminal. This is where most people draw the line if they think about it. Because when you put innocents under arrest, suddenly you are no better than dictatorships and terrorist state. The real justice is investing in a security system that tracks, investigates, and condemn actual criminals, in a targetted way, so that honest people can live securely and free. Believe it or not, plenty of countries manage to do that pretty well.

mcmcmc 9mo ago

What a ridiculous excuse. People who join ICE to brutalize minorities and protestors are just trying to feed their families too, then. No? Working for Microsoft doesn’t make them bad engineers or bad people, but it does make them Microsoft employees. And they get to bear its reputation whether they want to or not. If it makes them uncomfortable then they should make a change or grow thicker skin. Oversaturation of the labor supply for software engineers has been looming for a while now. Gen Z was sold on infinite growth in the ZIRP era which was never going to happen, but everyone still jumped in. What we’re seeing is structural unemployment. Not everyone’s gonna make it.

trimethylpurine 9mo ago
Do you have kids? If not, I agree with you. Make the hard decision and take a loss. And thank you for your sacrifice. If you do, I can't agree with you. Also I wouldn't compare software development for a marketing company with a violent disagreeable effort. There's bad and there's worse, objectively. Anyway, not saying you're wrong, but I'm not so quick to judge someone by a job that they probably hate. Or to wrap 100,000 people in the same blanket. We're all individuals. No one should be judged by the actions of others.
- bionsystem 9mo ago
  There are companies I wouldn't candidate for, even with kids I think, although it's hard to say, I don't have kids, and apparently there is a mind-shift happening when you get one. Oracle, Palantir come to mind. But maybe not Microsoft, I don't know about that one. It's probably bad, but maybe not "I prefer to watch my kids starving" kind of bad.
- mcmcmc 9mo ago
  Having kids is also a bullshit excuse. Choosing comfort over conscience is your prerogative but you’re just teaching your kids the same values. Yeah, tech monopolist that enables genocide to contemporary gestapo isn’t an equal comparison. But my point was that you can’t ignore the moral hazards of employment by handwaving “gotta eat somehow”. There are a million ways to feed your kids. Saying you have to work a high paid job to feed them non-GMO certified organic produce from Erewhon because that’s the only standard of living you can possibly survive with, that’s a choice. I also want to reiterate that I’m not judging the people who choose to work there. I’m just saying that by signing the employment contract they accept the reasonable public perception that the products they work on are shit. And to some marginal degree, they are complicit in all their employer’s wrongdoings.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - trimethylpurine 9mo ago
    Your commentary doesn't come off as honorable or righteous in any way to me. It comes off as self centered and self righteous. As if we all owe it to you to put you before our children. I don't know if that's your intention but that's what I'm reading. I genuinely hope you don't agree with that reading, because I doubt you'd have a nice life with that outlook. You'd be very unlikable.
    - mcmcmc 9mo ago
      What I’d consider unlikable is implying that someone might have no choice but to work for Microsoft in order to provide for their family. It carries with it an air of privilege and condescension implying that working a lesser job or for lesser pay would be insufficient to provide for a family’s basic needs.
      - trimethylpurine 9mo ago
        What lesser job? People are unemployed after six months. Meanwhile MS hired other people for less to replace those that left. Nobody won here. It's not about "lesser" jobs being actually lesser. The point is that you don't actually have a choice. Big companies that nobody likes are in control of the economy and you can't do anything except join the unemployed until you get rehired from the pool of desperate people willing to do their bidding. (All of this with a grain of salt. Not literally everyone is in this situation, but there are certainly many who are.) I'm just saying, maybe don't be so quick to judge.
TacticalCoder 9mo ago
> People who join ICE to brutalize minorities and protestors are just trying to feed their families too, then. 1400 ISIS (the islamist state) terrorists who made their way to the US, identified by the DHS. https://www.dhs.gov/wow https://www.dhs.gov/wow Look at the list here. 2084 pages already, 12 entries per page: that's 25 000 criminals. They're listing their crimes. 25 000 criminals already arrested is a huge lot. Be honest with yourself and think about the victims. I'd say a lot of the people joining ICE do believe the US has already enough criminals that are US citizens and want to help stop the insanity that is mass uncontrolled migration. Out of 600 000 people arrested by ICE, as I understand it already 25 000 are violent criminals that we know of. That's more nearly 5% of all those arrested. 1 in 20 people. Where do you draw the limit? You want full open borders, but at what cost? I read a lot of "Arrested for: kidnapping, rape". Is, say, 1 in 100 people coming in being a criminal OK? Where do you draw the line? Dems are literally fighting so that sanctuary cities do not hand over convicted criminals to ICE: so that one day they can be released in the streets. Is this what you want to fight for? Are you that convinced, from your moral high ground where you judge Microsoft employees and ICE agents, that you'll be on the right side of history?
- int_19h 9mo ago
  > Are you that convinced, from your moral high ground where you judge Microsoft employees and ICE agents, that you'll be on the right side of history? Yes. It really isn't difficult to figure out who the bad guys are, at the moment.
  - tovlier 9mo ago
    [dead]
- ngcazz 9mo ago
  Blackshirt elegy over here folks.
- bionsystem 9mo ago
  You are missing out the entire point. In a justice system, a single innocent in prison is a thousand times worse than a free criminal. This is where most people draw the line if they think about it. Because when you put innocents under arrest, suddenly you are no better than dictatorships and terrorist state. The real justice is investing in a security system that tracks, investigates, and condemn actual criminals, in a targetted way, so that honest people can live securely and free. Believe it or not, plenty of countries manage to do that pretty well.