4 ms·

What if a neighbor allowed homeless to camp in front of their house? Seems like the issue is the store owner (i.e. the neighbor), not the fact that it is a sto

What if a neighbor allowed homeless to camp in front of their house? Seems like the issue is the store owner (i.e. the neighbor), not the fact that it is a store. When I lived in Houston I used to jog past a house where the front yard was absolutely covered in garbage. Super nice neighborhood and all the houses in the neighborhood looked great, but just this one guy clearly had issues. It smelled horrendous. Anyway, seems unrelated to it being a store.

pandaman 8mo ago
>What if a neighbor allowed homeless to camp in front of their house? People keep writing this, obviously, without thinking even for a minute. A neighbor who allowed homeless camp in front of their house would: 1) have to live behind a homeless camp himself 2) be tanking his own house value 3) be open to sanctions from the code as there are way more restrictions on residential property use than there are on commercial. >When I lived in Houston Your experience in Houston, where there is no zoning, is not very irrelevant in discussion of zoning, don't you think? Unless you are actually making an example why zoning is important, of course.
- jaredklewis 8mo ago
  It’s the same man. 1) the business owner has to operate a business behind the camp 2) the business owner tanks the value of their own property 3) what code? The building code? If we can apply a “code” to a home, then we can apply it to a business. So if there really is such a disparity where you live, the issue is that disparity in application of building codes, not zoning laws. Re: Houston, what does zoning have to do with anything? My story could have happened i”anywhere. Zoning doesn’t control whether you are allowed to cover your property with trash. My point is that even in an area with nothing but houses, you can have horrendous neighbors.
  - pandaman 8mo ago
    >It’s the same man. Not at all. There are tons of businesses next to homeless camps in every American city, and the value of a business is not in the building but in the location and zoning, the code is the city code attached to zoning, the thing you don't have in Huston. The zoning for a residential and commercial is different thus you cannot apply residential zoning to commercial and vice versa.
    - Nevermark 8mo ago
      Don't punish/restrict responsible people for a problem caused by an irresponsible person. Fix the irresponsible behavior directly. Most residential codes define minimum living standards, and as a result people camping/crashing on a property whose structure they don't live in, is prohibited. Apparently your zone code needs to be corrected. Small businesses in residential areas need to be held to relevant/responsible residential zone code. (You are proposing a zoning code fix too, but for reasons I don't understand, seem fixated on eliminating non-offending businesses, instead of directly addressing the problem.)
      - pandaman 8mo ago
        I am glad that going directly after illegal behavior is an option for you but I live in a blue city, where DA practices "restorative justice" and the mayor allowed homeless to camp everywhere by a decree (it took a referendum and numerous lawsuits to remove giant camps he created out of downtown, they are still free to camp in residential areas despite the referendum explicitly forbidding that on top of the city and state laws to the safe effect). Nobody gets ticketed for noise, the "defund police" campaign from 2020 ended with the police not even enforcing traffic anymore so nobody is holding small business responsible.
        Nevermark 8mo ago
        Well that makes sense. The problem goes way beyond the individuals in question. I can see now why you would pretty much make any change if a side-effect was a solution. Probably should have disclosed when you first stated your opinion, that it was dependent on local dysfunctional, so others could have understood. Definitely not the norm.
        pandaman 8mo ago
        It's same in every big city in the US. It's not normal in the sense of conforming to customs and laws, but definitely is a norm in the sense of usual.
    - 8mo ago

pandaman 8mo ago

>What if a neighbor allowed homeless to camp in front of their house? People keep writing this, obviously, without thinking even for a minute. A neighbor who allowed homeless camp in front of their house would: 1) have to live behind a homeless camp himself 2) be tanking his own house value 3) be open to sanctions from the code as there are way more restrictions on residential property use than there are on commercial. >When I lived in Houston Your experience in Houston, where there is no zoning, is not very irrelevant in discussion of zoning, don't you think? Unless you are actually making an example why zoning is important, of course.

jaredklewis 8mo ago
It’s the same man. 1) the business owner has to operate a business behind the camp 2) the business owner tanks the value of their own property 3) what code? The building code? If we can apply a “code” to a home, then we can apply it to a business. So if there really is such a disparity where you live, the issue is that disparity in application of building codes, not zoning laws. Re: Houston, what does zoning have to do with anything? My story could have happened i”anywhere. Zoning doesn’t control whether you are allowed to cover your property with trash. My point is that even in an area with nothing but houses, you can have horrendous neighbors.
- pandaman 8mo ago
  >It’s the same man. Not at all. There are tons of businesses next to homeless camps in every American city, and the value of a business is not in the building but in the location and zoning, the code is the city code attached to zoning, the thing you don't have in Huston. The zoning for a residential and commercial is different thus you cannot apply residential zoning to commercial and vice versa.
  - Nevermark 8mo ago
    Don't punish/restrict responsible people for a problem caused by an irresponsible person. Fix the irresponsible behavior directly. Most residential codes define minimum living standards, and as a result people camping/crashing on a property whose structure they don't live in, is prohibited. Apparently your zone code needs to be corrected. Small businesses in residential areas need to be held to relevant/responsible residential zone code. (You are proposing a zoning code fix too, but for reasons I don't understand, seem fixated on eliminating non-offending businesses, instead of directly addressing the problem.)
    - pandaman 8mo ago
      I am glad that going directly after illegal behavior is an option for you but I live in a blue city, where DA practices "restorative justice" and the mayor allowed homeless to camp everywhere by a decree (it took a referendum and numerous lawsuits to remove giant camps he created out of downtown, they are still free to camp in residential areas despite the referendum explicitly forbidding that on top of the city and state laws to the safe effect). Nobody gets ticketed for noise, the "defund police" campaign from 2020 ended with the police not even enforcing traffic anymore so nobody is holding small business responsible.
      - Nevermark 8mo ago
        Well that makes sense. The problem goes way beyond the individuals in question. I can see now why you would pretty much make any change if a side-effect was a solution. Probably should have disclosed when you first stated your opinion, that it was dependent on local dysfunctional, so others could have understood. Definitely not the norm.
        pandaman 8mo ago
        It's same in every big city in the US. It's not normal in the sense of conforming to customs and laws, but definitely is a norm in the sense of usual.
  - 8mo ago