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This sounds very adversarial to me. I’m glad our devops team doesn’t think like you.

by antonvs 9mo ago

jpollock 9mo ago
In my career, DevOps was never a separate organization. It was a role assumed by the code owners. SRE (is it up, is the hardware working, is the network working?) was separate, and had different metrics. Having separate teams makes it adversarial because both orgs end up reporting into separate hierarchies with independent goals. Think about the metrics each team is measured on. Who resolves conflicts between them? How high up the org chart is it necessary to go to resolve the conflict? Can one team make different tradeoffs on code quality vs speed from another, or is it company-wide?
raw_anon_1111 9mo ago
If you have a “DevOps team” - they are operations and you aren’t getting any of the benefits of a DevOps mindset
- antonvs 9mo ago
  Meh, real life is a bit more complicated than a manifesto.
  - raw_anon_1111 9mo ago
    It’s not about just a manifesto, at the startup I worked for before getting into consulting 6 years ago - cloud + app dev - it was much more affective for the team who did the work, to create their own IAC based on a standard. What’s the difference between a “DevOps team” in 2026 than “operations” in 2001?
    - antonvs 9mo ago
      The difference is what they do. Assisting other teams with creating fully automated build and test pipelines. Managing infrastructure using automated systems. Identifying issues in production systems that other teams should look at, down to a level of granularity that wasn’t really possible in 2001. > affective You mean “effective”.
      - raw_anon_1111 9mo ago
        It very much was possible in 2001. In 2001 we automated updating and automating our 15 or so Windows job runners with Perl and the Win32:: module. No large enterprise by 2001 was walking up to individual PCs and updating computers by walking around and sticking CDs/DVDs in each computer and they were definitely making sure our on prem SQL Server and later MySQL database wasn’t having issues using dashboards and alerts.
      - dilyevsky 9mo ago
        That was very much present in 2001 except it was two separate teams: qa and sysadmins

This sounds very adversarial to me. I’m glad our devops team doesn’t think like you.

by antonvs 9mo ago

This sounds very adversarial to me. I’m glad our devops team doesn’t think like you.

In my career, DevOps was never a separate organization. It was a role assumed by the code owners. SRE (is it up, is the hardware working, is the network working?) was separate, and had different metrics. Having separate teams makes it adversarial because both orgs end up reporting into separate hierarchies with independent goals. Think about the metrics each team is measured on. Who resolves conflicts between them? How high up the org chart is it necessary to go to resolve the conflict? Can one team make different tradeoffs on code quality vs speed from another, or is it company-wide?

raw_anon_1111 9mo ago

If you have a “DevOps team” - they are operations and you aren’t getting any of the benefits of a DevOps mindset

antonvs 9mo ago
Meh, real life is a bit more complicated than a manifesto.
- raw_anon_1111 9mo ago
  It’s not about just a manifesto, at the startup I worked for before getting into consulting 6 years ago - cloud + app dev - it was much more affective for the team who did the work, to create their own IAC based on a standard. What’s the difference between a “DevOps team” in 2026 than “operations” in 2001?
  - antonvs 9mo ago
    The difference is what they do. Assisting other teams with creating fully automated build and test pipelines. Managing infrastructure using automated systems. Identifying issues in production systems that other teams should look at, down to a level of granularity that wasn’t really possible in 2001. > affective You mean “effective”.
    - raw_anon_1111 9mo ago
      It very much was possible in 2001. In 2001 we automated updating and automating our 15 or so Windows job runners with Perl and the Win32:: module. No large enterprise by 2001 was walking up to individual PCs and updating computers by walking around and sticking CDs/DVDs in each computer and they were definitely making sure our on prem SQL Server and later MySQL database wasn’t having issues using dashboards and alerts.
    - dilyevsky 9mo ago
      That was very much present in 2001 except it was two separate teams: qa and sysadmins