4 ms·

To be fair, the threat landscape changed, too.

antiframe 9mo ago
Not terribly fair. When Windows decided running everything as administrator was bad and to add a visual sudo-like prompt, Apple made fun of them for it, but it was Microsoft reacting to a changing threat landscape then too.
- klodolph 9mo ago
  Vista gets maligned but UAC is a good feature to have around, and Vista introduced it.
  - Semaphor 9mo ago
    My first thought was "But back then those prompts were constant, making them almost useless", though maybe that did actually help by making software vendors rely less on admin rights?
    - pjmlp 9mo ago
      That was the whole point.
    - klodolph 9mo ago
      It was a big mess, because users didn’t expect it, developers wanted users to just have everything run as admin, and the UAC user experience wasn’t polished yet. But that’s what you expect from new security features being introduced.
- charcircuit 9mo ago
  UAC is not a security boundary. Malware can bypass it if it wants.
  - pjmlp 9mo ago
    It helps to actually enable having to type a password instead of clicking on Yes. However yes, security is much more than an UAC dialog.
    - pjmlp 9mo ago
      Additionally, just remembered, recently there is an additional option on Windows 11 that the UAC generates a temporary admin user and then throws the security token away. https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2025/05/19/enhance-your-application-security-with-administrator-protection/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2025/05/19/enhanc...
Folcon 9mo ago
I mean it has, but the situation is getting ridiculous, I'm at the point where I'm honestly not sure what special set of magical incantations and rituals I need to do to get this process to work, it seems to change between different bits of software and get more complex with time as if Apple keeps finding proverbial bigger fools who can get through this mess without intending to and so they're solution is to keep making it increasingly more Byzantine The thing that really irks me is I've got a paid developer account with Apple, I've already done the xcode dance, notarized binaries and all that nonsense, shouldn't this have activated some super special bit on my Apple account that says “this one needs to do random stuff now and again and after saying, `Hey just checking in, doing this will do X to your computer probably, and maybe set it on fire, but if you say "go for it, I promise I know what I'm doing', I'm gonna trust you champ`, finger guns“ (not sure why in my head the personification of Apple would do "finger guns", but here we are I guess :shrug:) Hell at this point I'll take a checkbox in my settings that says, ”Some people are into extreme sports, I love to install random binaries, just get out of my way“
- imglorp 9mo ago
  You shouldn't need the company's permission to run whatever you want on your machine.
  - klodolph 9mo ago
    …you don’t, just like you don’t need the bank’s permission to withdraw funds… but they will still try and stop you pulling out $10,000 so you can buy iTunes gift cards to pay off your taxes.
  - chongli 9mo ago
    It's not an issue of permission, it's an issue of trying to make a computer that's safe for grandma to use. Criminals can and will convince grandma to navigate a byzantine labyrinth of prompts and technical measures in order to drain her bank account. That's the threat model we're dealing with here.
    - 9mo ago
SomeHacker44 9mo ago
Yes. The threats are now from Apple and other vendors who increasingly want, build and enforce lock in.

Not terribly fair. When Windows decided running everything as administrator was bad and to add a visual sudo-like prompt, Apple made fun of them for it, but it was Microsoft reacting to a changing threat landscape then too.

klodolph 9mo ago
Vista gets maligned but UAC is a good feature to have around, and Vista introduced it.
- Semaphor 9mo ago
  My first thought was "But back then those prompts were constant, making them almost useless", though maybe that did actually help by making software vendors rely less on admin rights?
  - pjmlp 9mo ago
    That was the whole point.
  - klodolph 9mo ago
    It was a big mess, because users didn’t expect it, developers wanted users to just have everything run as admin, and the UAC user experience wasn’t polished yet. But that’s what you expect from new security features being introduced.
charcircuit 9mo ago
UAC is not a security boundary. Malware can bypass it if it wants.
- pjmlp 9mo ago
  It helps to actually enable having to type a password instead of clicking on Yes. However yes, security is much more than an UAC dialog.
  - pjmlp 9mo ago
    Additionally, just remembered, recently there is an additional option on Windows 11 that the UAC generates a temporary admin user and then throws the security token away. https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2025/05/19/enhance-your-application-security-with-administrator-protection/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2025/05/19/enhanc...

Folcon 9mo ago

I mean it has, but the situation is getting ridiculous, I'm at the point where I'm honestly not sure what special set of magical incantations and rituals I need to do to get this process to work, it seems to change between different bits of software and get more complex with time as if Apple keeps finding proverbial bigger fools who can get through this mess without intending to and so they're solution is to keep making it increasingly more Byzantine The thing that really irks me is I've got a paid developer account with Apple, I've already done the xcode dance, notarized binaries and all that nonsense, shouldn't this have activated some super special bit on my Apple account that says “this one needs to do random stuff now and again and after saying, `Hey just checking in, doing this will do X to your computer probably, and maybe set it on fire, but if you say "go for it, I promise I know what I'm doing', I'm gonna trust you champ`, finger guns“ (not sure why in my head the personification of Apple would do "finger guns", but here we are I guess :shrug:) Hell at this point I'll take a checkbox in my settings that says, ”Some people are into extreme sports, I love to install random binaries, just get out of my way“

imglorp 9mo ago
You shouldn't need the company's permission to run whatever you want on your machine.
- klodolph 9mo ago
  …you don’t, just like you don’t need the bank’s permission to withdraw funds… but they will still try and stop you pulling out $10,000 so you can buy iTunes gift cards to pay off your taxes.
- chongli 9mo ago
  It's not an issue of permission, it's an issue of trying to make a computer that's safe for grandma to use. Criminals can and will convince grandma to navigate a byzantine labyrinth of prompts and technical measures in order to drain her bank account. That's the threat model we're dealing with here.
  - 9mo ago

SomeHacker44 9mo ago

Yes. The threats are now from Apple and other vendors who increasingly want, build and enforce lock in.