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Gosh there's a lot of corollary evidence pointing to his guilt but this is likely going to become more and more common and force the use of a lot more technical
by munk-a 8mo ago
Gosh there's a lot of corollary evidence pointing to his guilt but this is likely going to become more and more common and force the use of a lot more technical forensic resources.
Finding an original copy on a go-pro would likely be pretty compelling evidence but this (and the more scary politically centered questions like this) are why I wish we had a way to build a durable chain of custody into these technologies. It is infeasible from everything I've seen but it would be a big win for society.
- dmitrygr 8mo ago> I wish we had a way to build a durable chain of custody into these technologies Do you? Consider for a moment all the dissidents and protestors who would be ensnared by their own devices then, with no "it was all ai" defense available?
- munk-a 8mo agoI do - I think the videos and pictures that protestors smuggle out become less powerful if the state can dismiss them as fake and while most of us will remain skeptical of authority the more easy it is to fake something the more people you can convince of your falsehood. I don't think the lack of a durable chain of custody really provides any protection - that protection needs to come from a strong legal system and social contract to protect whistleblowers. If you're thinking of, as an example, an Iranian smuggling out protest footage, they're already taking an extreme risk and have a state using numerous tools to try and track them down - but the lack of a durable chain gives a wide area of authorities to cast doubt on the truth. I think your question is interesting to ponder and I think there are arguments in both directions - but my mind keeps coming back to the tank man photo being smuggled out of China and how much more difficult it would be in the modern world for a single image to carry such weight.
- eqvinox 8mo ago> I don't think the lack of a durable chain of custody really provides any protection - that protection needs to come from a strong legal system and social contract to protect whistleblowers. That social contract is quite a bit of a hit&miss if you look at countries across the globe. Same for the strong legal system. Other concerns aside, does this not make the whole approach a non-starter?
- munk-a 8mo agoI don't think it does but I do see the counter arguments. There have been prominent publicly open political dissidents and they do often suffer from assassination attempts. I think if you're considering political dissent the potential cost is a major factor in that decision. I have not had to make that decision personally so I am not an expert here - but it might be important to consider the value to those people of knowing your evidence can be proven true no matter what the authorities say.
- em-bee 8mo agoI don't think the lack of a durable chain of custody really provides any protection creating a fake video about a protest is going to upset those that want to hide the protest just as much.
- RobotToaster 8mo agoFilm cameras may be making a comeback.
- knowitnone3 8mo ago[dead]
- vbezhenar 8mo agoPut private key into every digital camera and hash/sign every frame. That private key is accompanied with manufacturer signature and can't be easily extracted. Mark all unsigned media as suspicious.
- gabrielsroka 8mo agoIsn't that similar to this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_Authenticity_Initiative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_Authenticity_Initiativ...
- acessoproibido 8mo agoMore surveillance and tracking won't be the solution.
- widdershins 8mo ago"and can't be easily extracted" is doing a lot of work there. People are very good at reverse-engineering. There would soon be a black market for 'clean' private keys that could be used to sign any video you want.
- munk-a 8mo agoThere would also be a requirement for all playback to actually properly check the private keys and for all the parties involved in the process to be acting in good faith. Not only would you have a black market for individuals to scalp clean keys but you'd likely have nation states with interests putting pressure on local manufacturers to give them backdoors. We'd probably hit a lot of that with SSL if it wasn't so unimportant from a political perspective[1]... but if the thing we were trying to secure is going to boost or damage some prominent politician directly then the level of pressure is going to be on a whole different scale. 1. And we might still have that corruption of SSL when it comes to targeted phishing attacks.
- cheeze 8mo ago> There would also be a requirement for all playback to actually properly check the private keys I don't think that's true. Only for someone who wanted to prove authenticity to grab the signature. No private keys would be exposed (except those which were hacked.) If Netflix and Amazon can't keep their 4k HDR webrips from being leaked (supposedly via extracted licenses from Nvidia Shields), I have no idea how we'd expect all camera manufacturers to do it. Maybe iPhones and flagship Apple devices, but even then we'd find vulns in older devices over time.
- changoplatanero 8mo agoThey got him for illegal BASE jumping and now they are going to get him for lying to the police about it too.
- bsder 8mo ago> Gosh there's a lot of corollary evidence pointing to his guilt but this is likely going to become more and more common and force the use of a lot more technical forensic resources. Nah. People who do something like this can't help but brag. They'll incriminate themselves in seconds voluntarily.
- tokai 8mo agoCouldn't you just match the noise profile of the camera with the video?
- cheeze 8mo agoHow do you find the camera? "I extracted and added the noise profile to the AI generated video with a goPro to make it look legitimate"