4 ms·

1. Still hard not to think that this is a huge waste of time as opposed to something that's a little more like a public transport train-ish thing, i.e. integrat

by jrm4 8mo ago

1. Still hard not to think that this is a huge waste of time as opposed to something that's a little more like a public transport train-ish thing, i.e. integrate with established infrastructure. 2. No seriously, is the filipino driver thing confirmed? It really feels like they're trying to bury that.

smotched 8mo ago
America is not europe, how would public transport work for the last 1/2miles
- goatlover 8mo ago
  Walking, bikes and scooters.
  - smotched 8mo ago
    again, this is not europe. we don't ride bikes, and we certainly don't walk.
    - kube-system 8mo ago
      Yeah, that’s the root of a lot of problems in the US. But pedestrian infrastructure is a very simple problem to solve, even in the US. Just look at how the market responds to public transit projects in the US —- developers trip over themselves to build projects in response to the induced demand. Likewise they also responded to the reduced demand as a result of ripping out public transit infrastructure in the 20th century. Which is why doughnut-shaped cities are common in the US.
airstrike 8mo ago
"The Filipino driver thing" is simply that there's a manual override ability when this profoundly complex and marvelously novel technology gets trapped in edge cases. Once it gets unstuck, it runs autonomously.
iknowstuff 8mo ago
Filipino driver is false. Filipino guidance person is true.
- jrm4 8mo ago
  The difference being?
  - mkl 8mo ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46918834 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46918834
  - kube-system 8mo ago
    They’re like a back-seat driver instead of a driver. They can say “take that turn”, or “go over there”, but they can’t operate the controls.
hiddencost 8mo ago
(2) I really don't understand why people are surprised that Waymo has fallbacks? The fact that they had a team ready to take over as necessary was well known. I've seen a bunch of comments about this and it seems like people are confused.
- anigbrowl 8mo ago
  I think they're surprised to learn it's being done by a bunch of people on the other side of the world because they don't want to pay American wages.
- jrm4 8mo ago
  I think you sort of fundamentally misunderstand the whole "steak vs sizzle" thing in capitalism? The technology "feels" way less cool knowing that there are human backups, which would absolutely in turn make its percieved value go down.
spaceywilly 8mo ago
My view on Waymo and autonomous taxis in general is they will eventually make public transit obsolete. Once there is a robotaxi available to pick up and drop off every passenger directly from a to b, the whole system could be made to be super efficient. It will take time to get there though. But eventually I think we will get there. Human drivers will be banned, the roads will be exclusively used by autonomous vehicles that are very efficient drivers (we could totally remove stoplights, for example. Only pedestrian crossing signs would be needed. Robo-vehicles could plug into a city-wide network that optimizes the routing of every vehicle.) At that point, public transit becomes subsidized robotaxi rides. Why take a subway when a car can take you door to door with an optimized route? So in terms of why it isn’t a waste of time, it’s a step along the path towards this vision. We can’t flip a switch and make this tech exist, it will happen in gradual steps.
- sagarm 8mo ago
  If everyone in NYC tried to commute in a single-occupancy vehicle, there would be gridlock -- AVs or no.
- rootusrootus 8mo ago
  > Human drivers will be banned, the roads will be exclusively used by autonomous vehicles I basically agree with your premise that public transit as it exists today will be rendered obsolete, but I think this point here is where your prediction hits a wall. I would be stunned if we agreed to eliminate human drivers from the road in my lifetime, or the lifetime of anyone alive today. Waymo is amazing, but still just at the beginning of the long tail.
  - Jblx2 8mo ago
    Is that: - I would be stunned if we agree to eliminate human drivers from 100% of roads in the lifetime of anyone alive today. or - I would be stunned if we agree to eliminate human drivers from 10% of roads... ...or is there some other percentage to qualify this? I guess I wouldn't expect there to be a decree that makes it happen all at once for a country. Especially a large country like the U.S.. More like, some really dense city will decide to make a tiny core autonomous vehicles only, and then some other cities also do years later. And then maybe it expands to something larger than just the core after 5 or 10 years. And so on...
jeffbee 8mo ago
They are not trying to "bury" remote assistance at all. They wrote a white paper about it in 2020 and a blog post about it in 2024. Anyway you can think it's a waste but they're wasting their money, not yours. If you want a train in your town, go get one. Waymo has only spent, cumulatively, about 4 months of the budgets of American transit agencies. If you had all that money it wouldn't amount to anything.
- jrm4 8mo ago
  "At all?" Oh come on -- of course they are. That's precisely why you put it in a "white paper" and not, you know, ads.
anigbrowl 8mo ago
2. Yes, a Waymo exec described it in a Congressional hearing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46918043 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46918043
frenchy 8mo ago
As someone who half-learned to drive in Manila, the idea that they would use Filipino drivers as backups is ironic. For context, my "driver's test" was going to the back of the office, and driving some old car backwards and forwards a few meters.
kevincox 8mo ago
I am very pro public transit. But there is still a place for cars (ideally mostly taxis). Going to more rural areas or when you need to carry more stuff. I think an ideal society would have both urban transit, inter-city transit and taxis for the other trips and going out into the country.

by jrm4 8mo ago

smotched 8mo ago

America is not europe, how would public transport work for the last 1/2miles

goatlover 8mo ago
Walking, bikes and scooters.
- smotched 8mo ago
  again, this is not europe. we don't ride bikes, and we certainly don't walk.
  - kube-system 8mo ago
    Yeah, that’s the root of a lot of problems in the US. But pedestrian infrastructure is a very simple problem to solve, even in the US. Just look at how the market responds to public transit projects in the US —- developers trip over themselves to build projects in response to the induced demand. Likewise they also responded to the reduced demand as a result of ripping out public transit infrastructure in the 20th century. Which is why doughnut-shaped cities are common in the US.

airstrike 8mo ago

"The Filipino driver thing" is simply that there's a manual override ability when this profoundly complex and marvelously novel technology gets trapped in edge cases. Once it gets unstuck, it runs autonomously.

iknowstuff 8mo ago

Filipino driver is false. Filipino guidance person is true.

jrm4 8mo ago
The difference being?
- mkl 8mo ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46918834 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46918834
- kube-system 8mo ago
  They’re like a back-seat driver instead of a driver. They can say “take that turn”, or “go over there”, but they can’t operate the controls.

hiddencost 8mo ago

(2) I really don't understand why people are surprised that Waymo has fallbacks? The fact that they had a team ready to take over as necessary was well known. I've seen a bunch of comments about this and it seems like people are confused.

anigbrowl 8mo ago
I think they're surprised to learn it's being done by a bunch of people on the other side of the world because they don't want to pay American wages.
jrm4 8mo ago
I think you sort of fundamentally misunderstand the whole "steak vs sizzle" thing in capitalism? The technology "feels" way less cool knowing that there are human backups, which would absolutely in turn make its percieved value go down.

spaceywilly 8mo ago

My view on Waymo and autonomous taxis in general is they will eventually make public transit obsolete. Once there is a robotaxi available to pick up and drop off every passenger directly from a to b, the whole system could be made to be super efficient. It will take time to get there though. But eventually I think we will get there. Human drivers will be banned, the roads will be exclusively used by autonomous vehicles that are very efficient drivers (we could totally remove stoplights, for example. Only pedestrian crossing signs would be needed. Robo-vehicles could plug into a city-wide network that optimizes the routing of every vehicle.) At that point, public transit becomes subsidized robotaxi rides. Why take a subway when a car can take you door to door with an optimized route? So in terms of why it isn’t a waste of time, it’s a step along the path towards this vision. We can’t flip a switch and make this tech exist, it will happen in gradual steps.

sagarm 8mo ago
If everyone in NYC tried to commute in a single-occupancy vehicle, there would be gridlock -- AVs or no.
rootusrootus 8mo ago
> Human drivers will be banned, the roads will be exclusively used by autonomous vehicles I basically agree with your premise that public transit as it exists today will be rendered obsolete, but I think this point here is where your prediction hits a wall. I would be stunned if we agreed to eliminate human drivers from the road in my lifetime, or the lifetime of anyone alive today. Waymo is amazing, but still just at the beginning of the long tail.
- Jblx2 8mo ago
  Is that: - I would be stunned if we agree to eliminate human drivers from 100% of roads in the lifetime of anyone alive today. or - I would be stunned if we agree to eliminate human drivers from 10% of roads... ...or is there some other percentage to qualify this? I guess I wouldn't expect there to be a decree that makes it happen all at once for a country. Especially a large country like the U.S.. More like, some really dense city will decide to make a tiny core autonomous vehicles only, and then some other cities also do years later. And then maybe it expands to something larger than just the core after 5 or 10 years. And so on...

jeffbee 8mo ago

They are not trying to "bury" remote assistance at all. They wrote a white paper about it in 2020 and a blog post about it in 2024. Anyway you can think it's a waste but they're wasting their money, not yours. If you want a train in your town, go get one. Waymo has only spent, cumulatively, about 4 months of the budgets of American transit agencies. If you had all that money it wouldn't amount to anything.

jrm4 8mo ago
"At all?" Oh come on -- of course they are. That's precisely why you put it in a "white paper" and not, you know, ads.

anigbrowl 8mo ago

2. Yes, a Waymo exec described it in a Congressional hearing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46918043 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46918043

frenchy 8mo ago

As someone who half-learned to drive in Manila, the idea that they would use Filipino drivers as backups is ironic. For context, my "driver's test" was going to the back of the office, and driving some old car backwards and forwards a few meters.

kevincox 8mo ago

I am very pro public transit. But there is still a place for cars (ideally mostly taxis). Going to more rural areas or when you need to carry more stuff. I think an ideal society would have both urban transit, inter-city transit and taxis for the other trips and going out into the country.