3 ms·

> So for example with this project, you could take a Linux application's codebase, recompile it linked to LiteBox If you have to recompile, you might as well c

by kccqzy 9mo ago

> So for example with this project, you could take a Linux application's codebase, recompile it linked to LiteBox If you have to recompile, you might as well choose to recompile to WASM+WASI. The sandboxing story here is excellent due to its web origins. I thought the point of LiteBox is that recompilation isn’t needed.

bri3d 9mo ago
Looking more closely, it looks like there are some "North" sides (platforms) with ABI shims (currently Linux and OP-TEE), but others (Windows, for example), would still require recompilation. > If you have to recompile, you might as well choose to recompile to WASM+WASI. I disagree here; this ignores the entire swath of functionality that an OS or runtime provides? Like, as just as an example, I can't "just recompile" my OP-TEE TA into WASM when it uses the KDF function from the OP-TEE runtime?
- kccqzy 9mo ago
  I had previous experience with WASM on TEE. Just use the foreign function interface. Remember WASM isn’t native code so you still need other native code to run WASM (such as wasmtime), and you can import other native functions into WASM through the runtime.
  - gf000 9mo ago
    Native functions that are no longer sandboxed, defeating the whole purpose.
    - kccqzy 9mo ago
      Any pure code (WASM or otherwise) that does not perform any input/output is by definition useless. It consumes electricity to do computation and there is no way to communicate its results. The use case here was to use a KDF function from the TEE, and I assume it serves as an oracle where the actual key material cannot be revealed.
      - gf000 9mo ago
        Turing machines have a well-defined input, and output if they halt. So no, they are absolutely not useless, they are just "single-shot" models of computation. Certain software fit that model very nicely (e.g. compilers), others less so.
gf000 9mo ago
It's absolutely trivial to make a very strict sandbox - just a simple, mathematical Turing machine is 100% safe. The hard part is having actual capabilities, and only WASI (which is much smaller than WASM) helps here, and it's not clear why would it be any better than other options, like LiteBox. Especially that wasm does have a small, but real overhead.

by kccqzy 9mo ago

bri3d 9mo ago

Looking more closely, it looks like there are some "North" sides (platforms) with ABI shims (currently Linux and OP-TEE), but others (Windows, for example), would still require recompilation. > If you have to recompile, you might as well choose to recompile to WASM+WASI. I disagree here; this ignores the entire swath of functionality that an OS or runtime provides? Like, as just as an example, I can't "just recompile" my OP-TEE TA into WASM when it uses the KDF function from the OP-TEE runtime?

kccqzy 9mo ago
I had previous experience with WASM on TEE. Just use the foreign function interface. Remember WASM isn’t native code so you still need other native code to run WASM (such as wasmtime), and you can import other native functions into WASM through the runtime.
- gf000 9mo ago
  Native functions that are no longer sandboxed, defeating the whole purpose.
  - kccqzy 9mo ago
    Any pure code (WASM or otherwise) that does not perform any input/output is by definition useless. It consumes electricity to do computation and there is no way to communicate its results. The use case here was to use a KDF function from the TEE, and I assume it serves as an oracle where the actual key material cannot be revealed.
    - gf000 9mo ago
      Turing machines have a well-defined input, and output if they halt. So no, they are absolutely not useless, they are just "single-shot" models of computation. Certain software fit that model very nicely (e.g. compilers), others less so.

gf000 9mo ago

It's absolutely trivial to make a very strict sandbox - just a simple, mathematical Turing machine is 100% safe. The hard part is having actual capabilities, and only WASI (which is much smaller than WASM) helps here, and it's not clear why would it be any better than other options, like LiteBox. Especially that wasm does have a small, but real overhead.