5 ms·

> I don’t care what type of weird tricks the compiler did for optimizations. you might not, but plenty of others do. on the jvm for example, anyone building a

> I don’t care what type of weird tricks the compiler did for optimizations. you might not, but plenty of others do. on the jvm for example, anyone building a performance sensitive application has to care about what the compiler emits + how the jit behaves. simple things like accidental boxing, megamorphic call preventing inlining, etc. have massive effects. i've spent many hours benchmarking, inspecting in jitwatch, etc.

raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
And 95%+ developers aren’t writing performance sensitive code. In my career, most bottlenecks I’ve seen are because of bad database design, network latency, or other infrastructure related issuesor in the cloud days startup latency for anything serviceless. Yes I know every millisecond a company like Google can shave off, is multiplied by billions of transactions a day and can save real money on infrastructure. But even at a second tier company like Salesforce, it probably doesn’t matter
- rileymichael 8mo ago
  it all matters. if more people took pride in their craft and understood the behavior of their tools, modern software wouldn’t be so horrid
  - raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
    To a first approximation, no one gets paid to write bespoke hand crafted software. We get paid to make the company more money or save the company more money than the fully allocated cost to employ us to make computers do things. I take “pride” in the fact that software and implementations I designed meets the requirements of the people that paid me to write it - whether that be by a combination of my work and my delegated work to humans or LLMs Over the past decade, part of my job has been to design systems, talk to “stakeholders” and delegate some work and do some myself. I’m neither a web developer nor a mobile developer. I don’t look at a line of code for those types of implementations. I do make sure they work. From my perspective, those that I delegated to might as well be “human LLMs”.
pjmlp 8mo ago
Which is a good example on how managed runtimes are already not deterministic and how hard it is to reproduce scenarios.
- raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
  I agree, in my original comment, I went out of the way to say “C” in my hypothetical argument. But even with C, it’s still not completely deterministic with out of order and predictive branching, cache hits vs misses etc. Didn’t exactly this cause some of the worse processor level security issues we had seen in years?

raw_anon_1111 8mo ago

And 95%+ developers aren’t writing performance sensitive code. In my career, most bottlenecks I’ve seen are because of bad database design, network latency, or other infrastructure related issuesor in the cloud days startup latency for anything serviceless. Yes I know every millisecond a company like Google can shave off, is multiplied by billions of transactions a day and can save real money on infrastructure. But even at a second tier company like Salesforce, it probably doesn’t matter

rileymichael 8mo ago
it all matters. if more people took pride in their craft and understood the behavior of their tools, modern software wouldn’t be so horrid
- raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
  To a first approximation, no one gets paid to write bespoke hand crafted software. We get paid to make the company more money or save the company more money than the fully allocated cost to employ us to make computers do things. I take “pride” in the fact that software and implementations I designed meets the requirements of the people that paid me to write it - whether that be by a combination of my work and my delegated work to humans or LLMs Over the past decade, part of my job has been to design systems, talk to “stakeholders” and delegate some work and do some myself. I’m neither a web developer nor a mobile developer. I don’t look at a line of code for those types of implementations. I do make sure they work. From my perspective, those that I delegated to might as well be “human LLMs”.

pjmlp 8mo ago

Which is a good example on how managed runtimes are already not deterministic and how hard it is to reproduce scenarios.

raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
I agree, in my original comment, I went out of the way to say “C” in my hypothetical argument. But even with C, it’s still not completely deterministic with out of order and predictive branching, cache hits vs misses etc. Didn’t exactly this cause some of the worse processor level security issues we had seen in years?