3 ms·

Summary: legal immigration is very difficult to impossible. The solution, IMO, isn't "just enter illegally". When you're not a citizen then, quite frankly, the

• direwolf20 8mo ago
  It's the laws of physics that decide whether you actually get in or not.
  • nine_k 8mo ago
    It's the law of the land that determines how well are you doing once inside.
    • hn_acker 8mo ago
      > It's the law of the land that determines how well are you doing once inside. That continues to become less true, in the cruelest ways [1]: > One man told KBI that Border Patrol agents tore his birth certificate up in front of him. He managed to save his Mexican identity card because he had hidden it in his shoe. [1] https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/border-patrols-abusive-practice-of-taking-migrants-property-needs-to-end?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/border-patrols-a...
  • kreetx 8mo ago
    They do, but also only physically.
• coloneljelly 8mo ago
  What a novel, insightful conclusion. Thanks for sharing.
  • kreetx 8mo ago
    Funny, how the anti ICE crowd wants people to immigrate illegally. What about voting somebody to the office and changing the laws instead?
    • Ar-Curunir 8mo ago
      Are you stupid? Where does Doctorow's post advocate for illegal immigration?
      • kreetx 8mo ago
        The entire post reads like a justification to illegal immigration, no?
        • Ar-Curunir 8mo ago
          No, it reads like an explanation of the pain-in-the-ass called immigrating to the US.
          • kreetx 8mo ago
            In context of current events it really doesn't. Also, perhaps the pain is deliberate as to limit the inflow? Again, vote into office people who do it the way you want and don't try to rip law apart when you're the minority.
            • array_key_first 8mo ago
              It's a bit rich to be talking about ripping the law apart when we have an authoritarian in office and regular citizens are being executed on the streets. Even if you think ICE is the answer, which frankly it's not and even a second of introspection will reveal this, you cannot just pretend that the current situation is desirable. The undeniable reality is that this administration has absolutely no intention of ending illegal immigration. None. They intend to expand the police state, shut down dissent, and bring the US into a fascist state. You want to end illegal immigration? Fine. Just start locking up executives who hire undocumented people. It's easy, about 1000x easier than ICE, and much, MUCH less expensive. Will the Republicans ever propose anything even close to this? No. Because the reality is that that would immediately implode the economy of most red states, and they can't do that to their constituency. I mean, the red states that don't already have a shit economy. Besides, you cant rage against the machine if you destroy the machine. They NEED illegal immigration for their fascist wet dream. Without that justification for surveillance and violence, they have nothing left. Look, at the end of the day the only thing keeping states like Georgia from going under, besides the welfare of more economically successful blue states, is a steady supply of cheap labor willing to do dirty work. Even Texas, for Christ's sake, is only economically successful because of, like, 3 blue little dots. They're like Atlas carrying the economy of Texas on their shoulders. Outside of that it's... you guessed it, cheap labor doing dirty work!
• nisegami 8mo ago
  The Europeans didn't refrain from creating colonies in the Americas after learning it was already inhabited.
  • eudamoniac 8mo ago
    How did that work out for the previous inhabitants?
• hvb2 8mo ago
  Not all immigration is created equal. There's the economic migration and asylum seekers. Those are 2 distinct groups of people with different motives. For the true asylum seekers, that feat for their life wherever they're from for example, the laws of the country they're entering just don't matter. If it's a choice between life as an illegal or death I think we would all choose life. For the economic cases, sure. That's where the legal immigration system applies. And I agree with what you said about rules and each country gets to decide.