3 ms·

BMW Commits to Subscriptions Even After Heated Seat Debacle

27 points by geox 9mo ago

addhochohoc 9mo ago
Let he who is without greed, turn the other cheek to roast..
BloodyIron 9mo ago
Missed opportunity in title to make it "..Even After Heated Heated Seat Debacle.." and it would have grammatically been correct. Oh well!
kjellsbells 9mo ago
I'm struck by how oblivious the European manufacturers are, that they would pull such a user-hostile move. Autos are such a big part of the political machine in Europe they probably think they are immune from the winds of change. But with the collapse of US/EU relations and the subsequent cozying up to China, it's not impossible that the Chinese demand access to the EU markets in exchange for assistance. Good luck selling that pricey BMW or Audi when BYD and Xiaomi cars are better value all around. It'll be like when the Datsuns first arrived in the US: derided until suddenly they were to be feared, and by then it was too late. If I was the leader of the auto union in Germany, I´d be terrified that my company leadership was shooting itself in the foot just as the opposition were on my doorstep.
- msh 9mo ago
  BMW is not being sold as good value. Its other car brands (Skoda) that will feel the heat.
- izacus 9mo ago
  I mean they are terrified and are doing their best to manage the situation: by lobbying German state and EU to ban imports of competing products and stop EV migration so they can continue churning out worse and worse ICE cars for higher prices.
  - bzzzt 9mo ago
    BMW is building EVs like any other serious car manufacturer and doesn't show signs of going back and throwing away all those investments. They will have to prove the worth of their mark-up though but I think it's reasonable they ask for a level playing field against Chinese state-supported manufacturers selling below or at cost with state subsidies.
- alephnerd 9mo ago
  > But with the collapse of US/EU relations and the subsequent cozying up to China, it's not impossible that the Chinese demand access to the EU markets in exchange for assistance The EU doesn't need to bend to China's will. That's why the EU signed an FTA with India last week. During the Navratri sales season (9 days long and comparable to CNY) Mercedes was selling a car every 6 minutes [0] with an average sales price of $111k before the FTA was signed as well as rolling out 12 new models of which 2 are luxury EVs. It's also why BMW is rolling out 10 new cars in India - 3 of which are luxury EVs [1]. Most other large markets are either closed to European exports or face downward Chinese pricing pressure. By giving European luxury exporters the ability to sell 250K European manufactured cars tariff free a year it helps reduce pressure by giving European exporters a China-free market, with MG Motors India being Indianized [11]. China has also insisted that it will continue to back Russia in Ukraine no matter what [2][3] and Russia has returned the favor [4][5] to China. As such, China-EU relations are essentially irreparable and MoFA aligned think tanks have pointed this out as well [6]. And this is also why the EU is only further expanding trade barriers for Chinese exports [7][8][9][10]. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/india/mercedes-indias-revenue-hits-fresh-record-strong-top-end-luxury-sales-2026-01-15/ https://www.reuters.com/world/india/mercedes-indias-revenue-... [1] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-08/bmw-to-roll-out-three-new-ev-models-in-push-for-more-india-sales https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-08/bmw-to-ro... [2] - https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/china-tells-eu-it-cannot-afford-russian-loss-ukraine-war-sources-say https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/ch... [3] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-russia-discuss-ukraine-reach-consensus-japan-during-chinese-ministers-2025-12-03/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-russia-discuss-ukr... [4] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russian-bombers-join-chinese-air-patrol-near-japan-tokyo-beijing-tie-strains-2025-12-10/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russian-b... [5] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/russias-shoigu-chinas-wang-yi-discuss-security-issues-2026-02-01/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/russias-shoigu-chinas-wa... [6] - https://fddi.fudan.edu.cn/_t2515/57/f8/c21257a743416/page.htm https://fddi.fudan.edu.cn/_t2515/57/f8/c21257a743416/page.ht... [7] - https://www.ft.com/content/5d9f1a02-a60b-418f-8c9b-b711624cd840 https://www.ft.com/content/5d9f1a02-a60b-418f-8c9b-b711624cd... [8] - https://www.ft.com/content/eb677cb3-f86c-42de-b819-277bcb042295 https://www.ft.com/content/eb677cb3-f86c-42de-b819-277bcb042... [9] - https://www.ft.com/content/101ced1f-e03b-4353-8b1a-401d4feca238 https://www.ft.com/content/101ced1f-e03b-4353-8b1a-401d4feca... [10] - https://www.ft.com/content/a7190e3e-8656-401e-8645-f342d1a63793 https://www.ft.com/content/a7190e3e-8656-401e-8645-f342d1a63... [11] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-saic-cut-stake-india-car-venture-amid-investment-curbs-sources-say-2025-09-18/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-saic-cut-stake-in...
MrCurryCasino 9mo ago
[flagged]
- dang 9mo ago
  We've banned this account for posting abusively. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with—it will eventually get your main account banned as well. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

27 points by geox 9mo ago

Let he who is without greed, turn the other cheek to roast..

Missed opportunity in title to make it "..Even After Heated Heated Seat Debacle.." and it would have grammatically been correct. Oh well!

kjellsbells 9mo ago

I'm struck by how oblivious the European manufacturers are, that they would pull such a user-hostile move. Autos are such a big part of the political machine in Europe they probably think they are immune from the winds of change. But with the collapse of US/EU relations and the subsequent cozying up to China, it's not impossible that the Chinese demand access to the EU markets in exchange for assistance. Good luck selling that pricey BMW or Audi when BYD and Xiaomi cars are better value all around. It'll be like when the Datsuns first arrived in the US: derided until suddenly they were to be feared, and by then it was too late. If I was the leader of the auto union in Germany, I´d be terrified that my company leadership was shooting itself in the foot just as the opposition were on my doorstep.

msh 9mo ago
BMW is not being sold as good value. Its other car brands (Skoda) that will feel the heat.
izacus 9mo ago
I mean they are terrified and are doing their best to manage the situation: by lobbying German state and EU to ban imports of competing products and stop EV migration so they can continue churning out worse and worse ICE cars for higher prices.
- bzzzt 9mo ago
  BMW is building EVs like any other serious car manufacturer and doesn't show signs of going back and throwing away all those investments. They will have to prove the worth of their mark-up though but I think it's reasonable they ask for a level playing field against Chinese state-supported manufacturers selling below or at cost with state subsidies.
alephnerd 9mo ago
> But with the collapse of US/EU relations and the subsequent cozying up to China, it's not impossible that the Chinese demand access to the EU markets in exchange for assistance The EU doesn't need to bend to China's will. That's why the EU signed an FTA with India last week. During the Navratri sales season (9 days long and comparable to CNY) Mercedes was selling a car every 6 minutes [0] with an average sales price of $111k before the FTA was signed as well as rolling out 12 new models of which 2 are luxury EVs. It's also why BMW is rolling out 10 new cars in India - 3 of which are luxury EVs [1]. Most other large markets are either closed to European exports or face downward Chinese pricing pressure. By giving European luxury exporters the ability to sell 250K European manufactured cars tariff free a year it helps reduce pressure by giving European exporters a China-free market, with MG Motors India being Indianized [11]. China has also insisted that it will continue to back Russia in Ukraine no matter what [2][3] and Russia has returned the favor [4][5] to China. As such, China-EU relations are essentially irreparable and MoFA aligned think tanks have pointed this out as well [6]. And this is also why the EU is only further expanding trade barriers for Chinese exports [7][8][9][10]. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/india/mercedes-indias-revenue-hits-fresh-record-strong-top-end-luxury-sales-2026-01-15/ https://www.reuters.com/world/india/mercedes-indias-revenue-... [1] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-08/bmw-to-roll-out-three-new-ev-models-in-push-for-more-india-sales https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-08/bmw-to-ro... [2] - https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/china-tells-eu-it-cannot-afford-russian-loss-ukraine-war-sources-say https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/ch... [3] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-russia-discuss-ukraine-reach-consensus-japan-during-chinese-ministers-2025-12-03/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-russia-discuss-ukr... [4] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russian-bombers-join-chinese-air-patrol-near-japan-tokyo-beijing-tie-strains-2025-12-10/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russian-b... [5] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/russias-shoigu-chinas-wang-yi-discuss-security-issues-2026-02-01/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/russias-shoigu-chinas-wa... [6] - https://fddi.fudan.edu.cn/_t2515/57/f8/c21257a743416/page.htm https://fddi.fudan.edu.cn/_t2515/57/f8/c21257a743416/page.ht... [7] - https://www.ft.com/content/5d9f1a02-a60b-418f-8c9b-b711624cd840 https://www.ft.com/content/5d9f1a02-a60b-418f-8c9b-b711624cd... [8] - https://www.ft.com/content/eb677cb3-f86c-42de-b819-277bcb042295 https://www.ft.com/content/eb677cb3-f86c-42de-b819-277bcb042... [9] - https://www.ft.com/content/101ced1f-e03b-4353-8b1a-401d4feca238 https://www.ft.com/content/101ced1f-e03b-4353-8b1a-401d4feca... [10] - https://www.ft.com/content/a7190e3e-8656-401e-8645-f342d1a63793 https://www.ft.com/content/a7190e3e-8656-401e-8645-f342d1a63... [11] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-saic-cut-stake-india-car-venture-amid-investment-curbs-sources-say-2025-09-18/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-saic-cut-stake-in...

MrCurryCasino 9mo ago

[flagged]

dang 9mo ago
We've banned this account for posting abusively. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with—it will eventually get your main account banned as well. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html