6 ms·

Guily by (lack of) association!

by niobe 8mo ago

vee-kay 8mo ago
[flagged]
- actionfromafar 8mo ago
  The claims in that article look weak. Out of 10 000, how many children usually die before adulthood?
  - vee-kay 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - stef25 8mo ago
      > that deadly unproven vaccine It was not.
      - vee-kay 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        ogogmad 8mo ago
        Lack of informed consent is a serious possible issue here. Lack of accountability might be another one. Being cheaper, by contrast, shouldn't be seen as bad. But all of this needs to be proven.
        deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
        vee-kay 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        actionfromafar 8mo ago
        I wonder what the other 11 000 NGOs did to get banned by Modi.
        vee-kay 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        stef25 8mo ago
        Did you even read what you posted ? Talking about the 7 deaths: > Five were evidently unrelated to the vaccine: One girl drowned in a quarry; another died from a snake bite; two committed suicide by ingesting pesticides; and one died from complications of malaria. The causes of death for the other two girls were less certain: one possibly from pyrexia, or high fever, and a second from a suspected cerebral hemorrhage. Government investigators concluded that pyrexia was "very unlikely" to be related to the vaccine, and likewise they considered a link between stroke and the vaccine as "unlikely." End of discussion.
        vee-kay 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        stef25 8mo ago
        Drugs in clinical trails like this have made it past the animal testing stage and the healthy volunteers testing stage. Efficacy wise, yes they are unproven. To be the devil's advocate, it can be difficult to explain informed consent in the case of mental incapacity or whatever. In that case, a responsible adult can sign. > Answer me honestly: Did that same billionaire (Bill Gates) and his organization (Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation) do the same exact trials in his home country (USA)? "clinical trials of unproven vaccines on thousands of poor minor girls, without consent of then and their parents" As far as I know not so yes that's correct. I said before they might have gone to those regions in India to bypass strict ethical committees in the west. And yes, that's definitely questionable. The thing you completely ignore is that none of the deaths were because of the vaccine. Yes, there have been problems with FDA. But modern medicine is mostly completely safe, so if the whole system was riddled by fraud this wouldn't be possible. One day you or someone close to you may need life saving treatments and then you'll be thankful for the pharma industry.
        vee-kay 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        cindyllm 8mo ago
        [dead]
- TheOtherHobbes 8mo ago
  India's Economic Times has issues as a source. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-economic-times/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-economic-times/ I'm hardly a fan of Gates, btw.
  - vee-kay 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - stef25 8mo ago
      This is what google shows: 7 deaths out of 24K vaccinated individuals. "An Indian government committee and subsequent investigations concluded that the seven deaths were most probably unrelated to the vaccine itself. The reported causes included drowning, snake bite, intentional ingestion of poisonous substances (suicide), malaria, brain hemorrhage, and viral fever." This was in a trail for the HPV virus so presumably they wanted subjects who were not yet sexually active. Girls were chosen because HPV can affect the cervix. So you vaccinate them, and then follow them up for maybe 15 years and see how it turns out. Enrolling young children in a trail like is always going to ethically hard to justify. And it's well possible they chose India instead of California for this reason. However the protocol makes sense. I worked in clinical trails for years, believe me the LAST thing anyone wants is problems like these because you'll end up losing billions. To market something in EU or USA you need EMEA or FDA approval. They will check every single piece of paper and can tank your entire decades long project. Respectfully, you're blowing this way out of proportion, this is just more "billionaire hysteria"
      - vee-kay 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        myrmidon 8mo ago
        Your article is careful to never explicitly state correlation between the vaccine and those seven girls deaths. Without such a link, your argument falls apart. > So answer me honestly: Did that same billionaire (Bill Gates) and his organisation (Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation) do the same exact trials in his home country (USA)? "clinical trials of unproven vaccines on thousands of poor minor girls, without consent of then and their parents" This accusation is toothless. You would need to show two things: - There were actual unacceptable risks or side-effects from the vaccine under test (your article completely fails to show this, and if you believe it does, then you are simply a victim of clickbait formulations) - The study was done in India because of risks to subjects deemed unacceptable in the US (and not simply because it was cheaper) What the article does show is that there was shoddy handling of consent. Which is valid criticism! But it is also somewhat unsurprising given the low literacy rate at that time and place. And this alone is simply not sufficient foundation for your accusations.
- stef25 8mo ago
  > directly caused the deaths of several children You're completely wrong, as I've pointed out below. "Especially girls" because they probably couldn't find boys with a cervix (HPV causes cervical cancer) Impossible to take these hysterical takes serious, do better.
  - vee-kay 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - myrmidon 8mo ago
      > clinical trials of unproven vaccines [...] that directly caused deaths and hospitalizations of many girls You have not shown this so far. The article that you believe supports this claim does not. There is a lot of reasons to do a vaccine trial in India instead of the US, and a very likely one is simply cost. If you want to accuse Gates of trying to murder Indian girls instead of Americans, then you have to show the actual harm, that there was known and disproportionate danger before the trial, and that the trial was done in India because of that danger. So far you demonstrated none of those. Also, please use asterisks (instead of caps lock) for emphasis (=> https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).
      - vee-kay 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        SanjayMehta 8mo ago
        In 2000 flying from Mumbai to Frankfurt I got upgraded to 1st class and ended up sitting next to the CEO of a smaller pharma company. He got a little drunk and opened up about why he was always in Mumbai instead of Europe or US. Lower costs for human testing were only a small part of it, the real reason was weak and unenforced regulations. And he could easily pay a consultant to bribe the officials. Part of the problem is of our own making, we have a corrupt bureaucracy and no enforcement. One of the key positives of the covid pandemic was how our govt firmly kept the mRNA "vaccines" out of the country. I suspect Bill Gates disgusting testing of HPV played a role in this.

Guily by (lack of) association!

by niobe 8mo ago

Guily by (lack of) association!

vee-kay 8mo ago

[flagged]

actionfromafar 8mo ago
The claims in that article look weak. Out of 10 000, how many children usually die before adulthood?
- vee-kay 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - stef25 8mo ago
    > that deadly unproven vaccine It was not.
    - vee-kay 8mo ago
      [flagged]
      - ogogmad 8mo ago
        Lack of informed consent is a serious possible issue here. Lack of accountability might be another one. Being cheaper, by contrast, shouldn't be seen as bad. But all of this needs to be proven.
        deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
        vee-kay 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        actionfromafar 8mo ago
        I wonder what the other 11 000 NGOs did to get banned by Modi.
        vee-kay 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        stef25 8mo ago
        Did you even read what you posted ? Talking about the 7 deaths: > Five were evidently unrelated to the vaccine: One girl drowned in a quarry; another died from a snake bite; two committed suicide by ingesting pesticides; and one died from complications of malaria. The causes of death for the other two girls were less certain: one possibly from pyrexia, or high fever, and a second from a suspected cerebral hemorrhage. Government investigators concluded that pyrexia was "very unlikely" to be related to the vaccine, and likewise they considered a link between stroke and the vaccine as "unlikely." End of discussion.
        vee-kay 8mo ago
        [flagged]
      - stef25 8mo ago
        Drugs in clinical trails like this have made it past the animal testing stage and the healthy volunteers testing stage. Efficacy wise, yes they are unproven. To be the devil's advocate, it can be difficult to explain informed consent in the case of mental incapacity or whatever. In that case, a responsible adult can sign. > Answer me honestly: Did that same billionaire (Bill Gates) and his organization (Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation) do the same exact trials in his home country (USA)? "clinical trials of unproven vaccines on thousands of poor minor girls, without consent of then and their parents" As far as I know not so yes that's correct. I said before they might have gone to those regions in India to bypass strict ethical committees in the west. And yes, that's definitely questionable. The thing you completely ignore is that none of the deaths were because of the vaccine. Yes, there have been problems with FDA. But modern medicine is mostly completely safe, so if the whole system was riddled by fraud this wouldn't be possible. One day you or someone close to you may need life saving treatments and then you'll be thankful for the pharma industry.
        vee-kay 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        cindyllm 8mo ago
        [dead]
TheOtherHobbes 8mo ago
India's Economic Times has issues as a source. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-economic-times/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-economic-times/ I'm hardly a fan of Gates, btw.
- vee-kay 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - stef25 8mo ago
    This is what google shows: 7 deaths out of 24K vaccinated individuals. "An Indian government committee and subsequent investigations concluded that the seven deaths were most probably unrelated to the vaccine itself. The reported causes included drowning, snake bite, intentional ingestion of poisonous substances (suicide), malaria, brain hemorrhage, and viral fever." This was in a trail for the HPV virus so presumably they wanted subjects who were not yet sexually active. Girls were chosen because HPV can affect the cervix. So you vaccinate them, and then follow them up for maybe 15 years and see how it turns out. Enrolling young children in a trail like is always going to ethically hard to justify. And it's well possible they chose India instead of California for this reason. However the protocol makes sense. I worked in clinical trails for years, believe me the LAST thing anyone wants is problems like these because you'll end up losing billions. To market something in EU or USA you need EMEA or FDA approval. They will check every single piece of paper and can tank your entire decades long project. Respectfully, you're blowing this way out of proportion, this is just more "billionaire hysteria"
    - vee-kay 8mo ago
      [flagged]
      - myrmidon 8mo ago
        Your article is careful to never explicitly state correlation between the vaccine and those seven girls deaths. Without such a link, your argument falls apart. > So answer me honestly: Did that same billionaire (Bill Gates) and his organisation (Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation) do the same exact trials in his home country (USA)? "clinical trials of unproven vaccines on thousands of poor minor girls, without consent of then and their parents" This accusation is toothless. You would need to show two things: - There were actual unacceptable risks or side-effects from the vaccine under test (your article completely fails to show this, and if you believe it does, then you are simply a victim of clickbait formulations) - The study was done in India because of risks to subjects deemed unacceptable in the US (and not simply because it was cheaper) What the article does show is that there was shoddy handling of consent. Which is valid criticism! But it is also somewhat unsurprising given the low literacy rate at that time and place. And this alone is simply not sufficient foundation for your accusations.
stef25 8mo ago
> directly caused the deaths of several children You're completely wrong, as I've pointed out below. "Especially girls" because they probably couldn't find boys with a cervix (HPV causes cervical cancer) Impossible to take these hysterical takes serious, do better.
- vee-kay 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - myrmidon 8mo ago
    > clinical trials of unproven vaccines [...] that directly caused deaths and hospitalizations of many girls You have not shown this so far. The article that you believe supports this claim does not. There is a lot of reasons to do a vaccine trial in India instead of the US, and a very likely one is simply cost. If you want to accuse Gates of trying to murder Indian girls instead of Americans, then you have to show the actual harm, that there was known and disproportionate danger before the trial, and that the trial was done in India because of that danger. So far you demonstrated none of those. Also, please use asterisks (instead of caps lock) for emphasis (=> https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).
    - vee-kay 8mo ago
      [flagged]
      - SanjayMehta 8mo ago
        In 2000 flying from Mumbai to Frankfurt I got upgraded to 1st class and ended up sitting next to the CEO of a smaller pharma company. He got a little drunk and opened up about why he was always in Mumbai instead of Europe or US. Lower costs for human testing were only a small part of it, the real reason was weak and unenforced regulations. And he could easily pay a consultant to bribe the officials. Part of the problem is of our own making, we have a corrupt bureaucracy and no enforcement. One of the key positives of the covid pandemic was how our govt firmly kept the mRNA "vaccines" out of the country. I suspect Bill Gates disgusting testing of HPV played a role in this.