4 ms·

Pretty sure most who claim the mantle of “Antifa” would welcome that Communist label, and plenty would endorse violence if it’s against the “right” people, so i

by xp84 9mo ago

Pretty sure most who claim the mantle of “Antifa” would welcome that Communist label, and plenty would endorse violence if it’s against the “right” people, so if the shoe fits…

idiotsecant 9mo ago
The air quotes around 'right' are interesting there. Yes, violence against Nazis and Fascists is acceptable. Do you disagree? I thought it was pretty much settled, we did a whole world war about it.
- schmidtleonard 9mo ago
  WWII revisionism is back in fashion these days, even in spaces that historically would have been only mildly to the right of center.
- some_random 9mo ago
  The trouble with that logic is that we also had a fair few wars against Communists.
  - riotnrrd 9mo ago
    We'll worry about that when the Presidency and both houses of Congress are controlled by the Communist Party
  - jmye 9mo ago
    What is a communist? And before you respond with a tautology, I’ll just ask - what is communism, and when have we fought anyone practicing it? Surely you’re not using scare words you don’t understand. Right?
- xp84 9mo ago
  Problem is "Nazi" = "Anyone who disagrees with me" in most Left-friendly spaces today. For instance: https://factually.co/fact-checks/politics/was-charlie-kirk-a-nazi-e7d5bd https://factually.co/fact-checks/politics/was-charlie-kirk-a... None of his views had anything to do with Naziism but failure to fall in line with all of the Left's current positions makes one "a Nazi" to them. And yes, much the same way as right-wing extremists like to paint all 'liberals' as "gun grabbing Marxists." The difference is you can find a lot more liberals who would happily glorify Marx than you can find Americans of any party who would glorify the Nazi regime or its acts. In case it's unclear, I do not support Nazis either.
  - jazzypants 9mo ago
    Charlie Kirk was not a Nazi, but he was definitely a fascist.
    - direwolf20 9mo ago
      What distinction do you draw?
      - jazzypants 9mo ago
        It's like a square and a rectangle. All Nazis are fascist, but not all fascists are Nazis. It's just like how I'm an environmentalist, but I'm not a member of the Green party. It may seem pedantic, but I find it's important to be exact these days because fascists love weaselly word games. Kirk was not a member of the National Socialist German Workers Party, but he shared the majority of their general beliefs and behaviors and those are undeniably fascist.
lo_zamoyski 9mo ago
"A majority of individuals involved are anarchists, communists, and socialists, although some social democrats also participate in the antifa movement. The name antifa and the logo with two flags representing anarchism and communism are derived from the German antifa movement." [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)
amanaplanacanal 9mo ago
Self defense is a kind of violence, I guess.
- some_random 9mo ago
  They're kinda famous for punching people (physically) unprovoked at this point. There was a whole discourse around it that comes back up pretty regularly, I don't know how you could miss it.
  - Refreeze5224 9mo ago
    Punching normal average people? Or punching Nazis?
  - etchalon 9mo ago
    Punching people who think you and your friends should be killed just for existing is a form of self-defense.
    - seneca 9mo ago
      > Punching people who think you and your friends should be killed just for existing is a form of self-defense. This is such an incredibly radicalized and detached from reality statement. It's genuinely scary that there are people who think this way.
      - jazzypants 9mo ago
        The real question is where do you draw the line with these ideologies? I don't think anyone deserves violence just for thinking the wrong things, but we're currently seeing the result of when those thoughts inevitably turn into actions. It doesn't seem like America ended up on the right side of the paradox of tolerance, so I'm curious how you think we could have avoided our current fascist leadership?
        seneca 9mo ago

by xp84 9mo ago

Pretty sure most who claim the mantle of “Antifa” would welcome that Communist label, and plenty would endorse violence if it’s against the “right” people, so if the shoe fits…

idiotsecant 9mo ago

The air quotes around 'right' are interesting there. Yes, violence against Nazis and Fascists is acceptable. Do you disagree? I thought it was pretty much settled, we did a whole world war about it.

schmidtleonard 9mo ago
WWII revisionism is back in fashion these days, even in spaces that historically would have been only mildly to the right of center.
some_random 9mo ago
The trouble with that logic is that we also had a fair few wars against Communists.
- riotnrrd 9mo ago
  We'll worry about that when the Presidency and both houses of Congress are controlled by the Communist Party
- jmye 9mo ago
  What is a communist? And before you respond with a tautology, I’ll just ask - what is communism, and when have we fought anyone practicing it? Surely you’re not using scare words you don’t understand. Right?
xp84 9mo ago
Problem is "Nazi" = "Anyone who disagrees with me" in most Left-friendly spaces today. For instance: https://factually.co/fact-checks/politics/was-charlie-kirk-a-nazi-e7d5bd https://factually.co/fact-checks/politics/was-charlie-kirk-a... None of his views had anything to do with Naziism but failure to fall in line with all of the Left's current positions makes one "a Nazi" to them. And yes, much the same way as right-wing extremists like to paint all 'liberals' as "gun grabbing Marxists." The difference is you can find a lot more liberals who would happily glorify Marx than you can find Americans of any party who would glorify the Nazi regime or its acts. In case it's unclear, I do not support Nazis either.
- jazzypants 9mo ago
  Charlie Kirk was not a Nazi, but he was definitely a fascist.
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    What distinction do you draw?
    - jazzypants 9mo ago
      It's like a square and a rectangle. All Nazis are fascist, but not all fascists are Nazis. It's just like how I'm an environmentalist, but I'm not a member of the Green party. It may seem pedantic, but I find it's important to be exact these days because fascists love weaselly word games. Kirk was not a member of the National Socialist German Workers Party, but he shared the majority of their general beliefs and behaviors and those are undeniably fascist.

lo_zamoyski 9mo ago

"A majority of individuals involved are anarchists, communists, and socialists, although some social democrats also participate in the antifa movement. The name antifa and the logo with two flags representing anarchism and communism are derived from the German antifa movement." [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

amanaplanacanal 9mo ago

Self defense is a kind of violence, I guess.

some_random 9mo ago
They're kinda famous for punching people (physically) unprovoked at this point. There was a whole discourse around it that comes back up pretty regularly, I don't know how you could miss it.
- Refreeze5224 9mo ago
  Punching normal average people? Or punching Nazis?
- etchalon 9mo ago
  Punching people who think you and your friends should be killed just for existing is a form of self-defense.
  - seneca 9mo ago
    > Punching people who think you and your friends should be killed just for existing is a form of self-defense. This is such an incredibly radicalized and detached from reality statement. It's genuinely scary that there are people who think this way.
    - jazzypants 9mo ago
      The real question is where do you draw the line with these ideologies? I don't think anyone deserves violence just for thinking the wrong things, but we're currently seeing the result of when those thoughts inevitably turn into actions. It doesn't seem like America ended up on the right side of the paradox of tolerance, so I'm curious how you think we could have avoided our current fascist leadership?
      - seneca 9mo ago