3 ms·

You did not have a right to stay in Germany as a Jew either. My point exactly.

somenameforme 8mo ago
This is both technically and logically incorrect. From a technical point of view - it's just wrong. Jews were persecuted and encouraged to leave, yet never formally expelled from Germany. And as the Nazis moved towards genocide, they moved in the other direction and made it impossible for Jews to leave the country. But from a logical point of view, it also fails, even in a parallel reality where you were right. Countries are generally deemed to have the right to kill their citizens for major violations of the law, in the pursuit of justice. But that does not mean a country has the right to just start killing their citizens on a whim. And similarly, every single country has the right to expel people who enter their country illegally or remain beyond the terms of a granted temporary stay. This does not mean a country has the right the randomly start expelling their own citizens, en masse, for no normal reason.
- saubeidl 8mo ago
  Your core assumptions are incorrect. Jews were not considered German Reich citizens. [0] Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Classifications_under_the_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Classifications...
  - somenameforme 8mo ago
    Your link does not conflict with anything I said. Jews were never formally expelled from Germany. You might note the page you link even lays out various rights for Jews living within Germany. In any case, this would not change the issue even had they been expelled, for reasons already mentioned. Those who do not read their links are doomed to misrepresent them.
    - saubeidl 8mo ago
      You had a whole long paragraph about how it's all totally different this time because the Jews were German citizens. Except they were not and your whole point was wrong. There are none so blind as those who will not see.
      - somenameforme 8mo ago
        You're engaging in banal semantics, in lieu of any form of logical or meaningful debate. When I say "citizen" obviously I am referring to the contemporary usage where you'd call somebody who is of a country - a citizen of that country. In the past this was not the case in many places where people could be legally within their own county, yet not considered civilians. An example you may be more familiar with is slaves in America.
        saubeidl 8mo ago
        These banal semantics are the legalistic excuses used by genocidal regimes to justify the unjustifiable and to assuade the conscience of collaborators. A close mirror of what is happening in this thread, if you will.
        somenameforme 8mo ago
        Deporting illegal aliens as literally every single country in existence does has no need of justification. You're the one that needs to justify claims of deporting people, for free, back to their home country as being an 'unjustifiable genocide', but in the end that's fundamentally illogical which leaves you with hyperbole, misrepresentation, and of course these sort of semantic games.
        donkeybeer 8mo ago
        Run me the numbers on how many people sent to el salvadore were illegal salvadoreans.
        8mo ago

This is both technically and logically incorrect. From a technical point of view - it's just wrong. Jews were persecuted and encouraged to leave, yet never formally expelled from Germany. And as the Nazis moved towards genocide, they moved in the other direction and made it impossible for Jews to leave the country. But from a logical point of view, it also fails, even in a parallel reality where you were right. Countries are generally deemed to have the right to kill their citizens for major violations of the law, in the pursuit of justice. But that does not mean a country has the right to just start killing their citizens on a whim. And similarly, every single country has the right to expel people who enter their country illegally or remain beyond the terms of a granted temporary stay. This does not mean a country has the right the randomly start expelling their own citizens, en masse, for no normal reason.

saubeidl 8mo ago
Your core assumptions are incorrect. Jews were not considered German Reich citizens. [0] Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Classifications_under_the_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Classifications...
- somenameforme 8mo ago
  Your link does not conflict with anything I said. Jews were never formally expelled from Germany. You might note the page you link even lays out various rights for Jews living within Germany. In any case, this would not change the issue even had they been expelled, for reasons already mentioned. Those who do not read their links are doomed to misrepresent them.
  - saubeidl 8mo ago
    You had a whole long paragraph about how it's all totally different this time because the Jews were German citizens. Except they were not and your whole point was wrong. There are none so blind as those who will not see.
    - somenameforme 8mo ago
      You're engaging in banal semantics, in lieu of any form of logical or meaningful debate. When I say "citizen" obviously I am referring to the contemporary usage where you'd call somebody who is of a country - a citizen of that country. In the past this was not the case in many places where people could be legally within their own county, yet not considered civilians. An example you may be more familiar with is slaves in America.
      - saubeidl 8mo ago
        These banal semantics are the legalistic excuses used by genocidal regimes to justify the unjustifiable and to assuade the conscience of collaborators. A close mirror of what is happening in this thread, if you will.
        somenameforme 8mo ago
        Deporting illegal aliens as literally every single country in existence does has no need of justification. You're the one that needs to justify claims of deporting people, for free, back to their home country as being an 'unjustifiable genocide', but in the end that's fundamentally illogical which leaves you with hyperbole, misrepresentation, and of course these sort of semantic games.
        donkeybeer 8mo ago
        Run me the numbers on how many people sent to el salvadore were illegal salvadoreans.
        8mo ago