4 ms·

Same with opencode and gemini, it's disgusting Codex (by openai ironically) seems to be the fastest/most-responsive, opens instantly and is written in rust but

Same with opencode and gemini, it's disgusting Codex (by openai ironically) seems to be the fastest/most-responsive, opens instantly and is written in rust but doesn't contain that many features Claude opens in around 3-4 seconds Opencode opens in 2 seconds Gemini-cli is an abomination which opens in around 16 second for me right now, and in 8 seconds on a fresh install Codex takes 50ms for reference... -- If their models are so good, why are they not rewriting their own react in cli bs to c++ or rust for 100x performance improvement (not kidding, it really is that much)

azinman2 8mo ago
Why does it matter if Claude Code opens in 3-4 seconds if everything you do with it can take many seconds to minutes? Seems irrelevant to me.
- wahnfrieden 8mo ago
  Because when the agent is taking many seconds to minutes, I am starting new agents instead of waiting or switching to non-agent tasks
- RohMin 8mo ago
  I guess with ~50 years of CPU advancements, 3-4 seconds for a TUI to open makes it seem like we lost the plot somewhere along the way.
  - strange_quark 8mo ago
    Don’t forget they’ve also publicly stated (bragged?) about the monumental accomplishment of getting some text in a terminal to render at 60fps.
  - jama211 8mo ago
    So it doesn’t matter at all except to your sensibilities. Sounds to me that they simply are much better at prioritisation than your average HN user, who’d have taken forever to release it but at least the terminal interface would be snappy…
- mbesto 8mo ago
  This is exactly the type of thing that AI code writers don't do well - understand the prioritization of feature development. Some developers say 3-4 seconds are important to them, others don't. Who decides what the truth is? A human? ClawdBot?
  - jama211 8mo ago
    The humans in the company (correctly) realised that a few seconds to open basically the most powerful productivity agent ever made so they can focus on fast iteration of features is a totally acceptable trade off priority wise. Who would think differently???
    - mbesto 8mo ago
      This is my point...
      - jama211 8mo ago
        You kinda suggested the opposite
  - sumedh 8mo ago
    > Some developers say 3-4 seconds are important to them, others don't. Wasnt GTA 5 famous for very long start up time and turns out there some bug which some random developer/gamer found out and gave them a fix? Most Gamers didnt care, they still played it.
- barnabee 8mo ago
  Some people[0] like their tools to be well engineered. This is not unique to software. [0] Perhaps everyone who actually takes pride in their craft and doesn’t prioritise shitty hustle culture and making money over everything else.
  - azinman2 8mo ago
    Aside from startup time, as a tool Claude Code is tremendous. By far the most useful tool I’ve encountered yet. This seems to be very nit picky compared to the total value provided. I think y'all are missing the forrest for the trees.
    - nsingh2 8mo ago
      Most of the value of Claude Code comes from the model, and that's not running on your device. The Claude Code TUI itself is a front end, and should not be taking 3-4 seconds to load. That kind of loading time is around what VSCode takes on my machine, and VSCode is a full blown editor.
      - barnabee 8mo ago
        It’s orders of magnitude slower than Helix, which is also a full blown editor. When all your other tools are fast and well engineered, slow and bloated is very noticeable.
    - barnabee 8mo ago
      It’s almost all the model. There are many such tools and Claude Code doesn’t seem to be in any way unique. I prefer OpenCode, so far.
wahnfrieden 8mo ago
Codex team made the right call to rewrite its TypeScript to Rust early on
g947o 8mo ago
Great question, and my guess: If you build React in C++ and Rust, even if the framework is there, you'll likely need to write your components in C++/Rust. That is a difficult problem. There are actually libraries out there that allow you to build web UI with Rust, although they are for web (+ HTML/CSS) and not specifically CLI stuff. So someone needs to create such a library that is properly maintained and such. And you'll likely develop slower in Rust compared to JS. These companies don't see a point in doing that. So they just use whatever already exists.
- shoeb00m 8mo ago
  Opencode wrote their own tui library in zig, and then build a solidjs library on top of that. https://github.com/anomalyco/opentui https://github.com/anomalyco/opentui
  - g947o 8mo ago
    This has nothing to do with React style UI building.
    - shoeb00m 8mo ago
      I am referring to your comment that the reason they use js is because of a lack of tui libraries in lower level languages, yet opencode chose to develop their own in zig and then make binding for solidjs.
- Philpax 8mo ago
  Those Rust libraries have existed for some time: - https://github.com/ratatui/ratatui https://github.com/ratatui/ratatui - https://github.com/ccbrown/iocraft https://github.com/ccbrown/iocraft - https://crates.io/crates/dioxus-tui https://crates.io/crates/dioxus-tui
  - g947o 8mo ago
    Where is React? These are TUI libraries, which are not the same thing
shoeb00m 8mo ago
codex cli is missing a bunch of ux features like resizing on terminal size change. Opencode's core is actually written in zig, only ui orchestration is in solidjs. It's only slightly slower to load than neo-vim on my system. https://github.com/anomalyco/opentui https://github.com/anomalyco/opentui
bdangubic 8mo ago
50ms to open and then 2hrs to solve a simple problem vs 4s to open and then 5m to solve a problem, eh?
- jama211 8mo ago
  lol right? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here. Why do people here want to prioritise the most pointless things? Oh right it’s because they’re bitter and their reaction is mostly emotional…
- thehamkercat 8mo ago
  The "50ms" number was measured by me and you can literally try it on your system as well. it will likely be faster than 50ms Do you have a proof that gpt-5.2 or 5.3 codex takes 2 hours for the same problem that sonnet/opus4.5/4.6 take 5 minutes to solve? (I use both anthropic and openai models daily almost equally, and i'm not relating to what you said) Sure codex-cli lacks way-too many features compared to claude-code (I use opencode), but your statement implies that openai models are absolute garbage (2h vs 5m to solve a problem)

azinman2 8mo ago

Why does it matter if Claude Code opens in 3-4 seconds if everything you do with it can take many seconds to minutes? Seems irrelevant to me.

wahnfrieden 8mo ago
Because when the agent is taking many seconds to minutes, I am starting new agents instead of waiting or switching to non-agent tasks
RohMin 8mo ago
I guess with ~50 years of CPU advancements, 3-4 seconds for a TUI to open makes it seem like we lost the plot somewhere along the way.
- strange_quark 8mo ago
  Don’t forget they’ve also publicly stated (bragged?) about the monumental accomplishment of getting some text in a terminal to render at 60fps.
- jama211 8mo ago
  So it doesn’t matter at all except to your sensibilities. Sounds to me that they simply are much better at prioritisation than your average HN user, who’d have taken forever to release it but at least the terminal interface would be snappy…
mbesto 8mo ago
This is exactly the type of thing that AI code writers don't do well - understand the prioritization of feature development. Some developers say 3-4 seconds are important to them, others don't. Who decides what the truth is? A human? ClawdBot?
- jama211 8mo ago
  The humans in the company (correctly) realised that a few seconds to open basically the most powerful productivity agent ever made so they can focus on fast iteration of features is a totally acceptable trade off priority wise. Who would think differently???
  - mbesto 8mo ago
    This is my point...
    - jama211 8mo ago
      You kinda suggested the opposite
- sumedh 8mo ago
  > Some developers say 3-4 seconds are important to them, others don't. Wasnt GTA 5 famous for very long start up time and turns out there some bug which some random developer/gamer found out and gave them a fix? Most Gamers didnt care, they still played it.
barnabee 8mo ago
Some people[0] like their tools to be well engineered. This is not unique to software. [0] Perhaps everyone who actually takes pride in their craft and doesn’t prioritise shitty hustle culture and making money over everything else.
- azinman2 8mo ago
  Aside from startup time, as a tool Claude Code is tremendous. By far the most useful tool I’ve encountered yet. This seems to be very nit picky compared to the total value provided. I think y'all are missing the forrest for the trees.
  - nsingh2 8mo ago
    Most of the value of Claude Code comes from the model, and that's not running on your device. The Claude Code TUI itself is a front end, and should not be taking 3-4 seconds to load. That kind of loading time is around what VSCode takes on my machine, and VSCode is a full blown editor.
    - barnabee 8mo ago
      It’s orders of magnitude slower than Helix, which is also a full blown editor. When all your other tools are fast and well engineered, slow and bloated is very noticeable.
  - barnabee 8mo ago
    It’s almost all the model. There are many such tools and Claude Code doesn’t seem to be in any way unique. I prefer OpenCode, so far.

wahnfrieden 8mo ago

Codex team made the right call to rewrite its TypeScript to Rust early on

g947o 8mo ago

Great question, and my guess: If you build React in C++ and Rust, even if the framework is there, you'll likely need to write your components in C++/Rust. That is a difficult problem. There are actually libraries out there that allow you to build web UI with Rust, although they are for web (+ HTML/CSS) and not specifically CLI stuff. So someone needs to create such a library that is properly maintained and such. And you'll likely develop slower in Rust compared to JS. These companies don't see a point in doing that. So they just use whatever already exists.

shoeb00m 8mo ago
Opencode wrote their own tui library in zig, and then build a solidjs library on top of that. https://github.com/anomalyco/opentui https://github.com/anomalyco/opentui
- g947o 8mo ago
  This has nothing to do with React style UI building.
  - shoeb00m 8mo ago
    I am referring to your comment that the reason they use js is because of a lack of tui libraries in lower level languages, yet opencode chose to develop their own in zig and then make binding for solidjs.
Philpax 8mo ago
Those Rust libraries have existed for some time: - https://github.com/ratatui/ratatui https://github.com/ratatui/ratatui - https://github.com/ccbrown/iocraft https://github.com/ccbrown/iocraft - https://crates.io/crates/dioxus-tui https://crates.io/crates/dioxus-tui
- g947o 8mo ago
  Where is React? These are TUI libraries, which are not the same thing

shoeb00m 8mo ago

codex cli is missing a bunch of ux features like resizing on terminal size change. Opencode's core is actually written in zig, only ui orchestration is in solidjs. It's only slightly slower to load than neo-vim on my system. https://github.com/anomalyco/opentui https://github.com/anomalyco/opentui

bdangubic 8mo ago

50ms to open and then 2hrs to solve a simple problem vs 4s to open and then 5m to solve a problem, eh?

jama211 8mo ago
lol right? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here. Why do people here want to prioritise the most pointless things? Oh right it’s because they’re bitter and their reaction is mostly emotional…
thehamkercat 8mo ago
The "50ms" number was measured by me and you can literally try it on your system as well. it will likely be faster than 50ms Do you have a proof that gpt-5.2 or 5.3 codex takes 2 hours for the same problem that sonnet/opus4.5/4.6 take 5 minutes to solve? (I use both anthropic and openai models daily almost equally, and i'm not relating to what you said) Sure codex-cli lacks way-too many features compared to claude-code (I use opencode), but your statement implies that openai models are absolute garbage (2h vs 5m to solve a problem)