5 ms·

Truly dark times when we can't even trust the CIA anymore.

khat 9mo ago
The CIA was formed in 1947 and the first known controversy was in 1953. And has a whole list of controversies since then. From giving citizens LSD, wiretapping citizens, to supporting Central American cocaine distribution. And this is where you draw the line on trustworthiness? Lol
- ceejayoz 9mo ago
  You and sarcasm should get better acquainted.
- MisterTea 9mo ago
  That was a joke that violently wooshed over your head. You might need to see a doctor to check for whiplash.
- DetroitThrow 9mo ago
  We have to draw the line somewhere
- butlike 9mo ago
  CIA-distributed LSD would be a weird trip
  - vjvjvjvjghv 9mo ago
    I would love to get some of that.
toyg 9mo ago
This is a good joke, but it's also true that the whole charade of trying to look "institutional" and "fact-based" was a pretty decent way to go about pursuing the US agenda. "Hey we are the good guys, we show you real numbers" was a good line to push, and it could often show up the opposition as cranks and liars. Nowadays, nobody even pretends to not be a liar, from any side. There is no debate that even attempts to look at the facts - it's vibes all the way down and fuck you if you don't agree, only money and guns matter. In the long run, this can't hold.
- seanw444 9mo ago
  > In the long run, this can't hold. It's always held, management just changes. Money and power are two fundamental constants to human nature.
  - toyg 8mo ago
    Sure, but assigning value to other things allows us to temper those brutal instincts. Otherwise we might as well live under military dictatorship.
- mangodrunk 8mo ago
  Your grievance is that we won’t have good cover to pursue our interests when they conflict with the sovereignty and security of others? You think it was good to lie and say that we’re the good guys while we inflict harm on others?
  - toyg 8mo ago
    Looking like you are trying to pursue the general interest is how we all get things like international tribunals, supranational organizations where conflicts are discussed and sometimes resolved, coordination to raise health standards and address natural disasters, etc etc. If the price to pay for those activities is sneaking in the occasional spy, or being a bit overzealous when defending certain business interests, I think it's worth paying, yes. That order was not perfect, but the alternative is going back to the naked power struggles of the XIX century, which ended in global carneficine - and the next time it will be so much worse.
    - mangodrunk 8mo ago
      Thanks for clarifying your position. I do see that model as only temporarily possible but eventually reality catches up with the propaganda, the Iraq war being a somewhat recent example. Also, as a citizen the previous model is also essentially requiring the government to lie to us, so I don’t think that as good either, because who will be benefiting from these “good guy” adventures?
mannanj 9mo ago
Then don't watch "Everything is a Rich Man's Trick" that was what showed me a bit of the under dealings of how that organization was structured and created. Spoiler: The CIA was formed around rich people's interests and continue to represent them, not in fact, the American people. Harsh reality but helpful to know.

khat 9mo ago

The CIA was formed in 1947 and the first known controversy was in 1953. And has a whole list of controversies since then. From giving citizens LSD, wiretapping citizens, to supporting Central American cocaine distribution. And this is where you draw the line on trustworthiness? Lol

ceejayoz 9mo ago
You and sarcasm should get better acquainted.
MisterTea 9mo ago
That was a joke that violently wooshed over your head. You might need to see a doctor to check for whiplash.
DetroitThrow 9mo ago
We have to draw the line somewhere
butlike 9mo ago
CIA-distributed LSD would be a weird trip
- vjvjvjvjghv 9mo ago
  I would love to get some of that.

toyg 9mo ago

This is a good joke, but it's also true that the whole charade of trying to look "institutional" and "fact-based" was a pretty decent way to go about pursuing the US agenda. "Hey we are the good guys, we show you real numbers" was a good line to push, and it could often show up the opposition as cranks and liars. Nowadays, nobody even pretends to not be a liar, from any side. There is no debate that even attempts to look at the facts - it's vibes all the way down and fuck you if you don't agree, only money and guns matter. In the long run, this can't hold.

seanw444 9mo ago
> In the long run, this can't hold. It's always held, management just changes. Money and power are two fundamental constants to human nature.
- toyg 8mo ago
  Sure, but assigning value to other things allows us to temper those brutal instincts. Otherwise we might as well live under military dictatorship.
mangodrunk 8mo ago
Your grievance is that we won’t have good cover to pursue our interests when they conflict with the sovereignty and security of others? You think it was good to lie and say that we’re the good guys while we inflict harm on others?
- toyg 8mo ago
  Looking like you are trying to pursue the general interest is how we all get things like international tribunals, supranational organizations where conflicts are discussed and sometimes resolved, coordination to raise health standards and address natural disasters, etc etc. If the price to pay for those activities is sneaking in the occasional spy, or being a bit overzealous when defending certain business interests, I think it's worth paying, yes. That order was not perfect, but the alternative is going back to the naked power struggles of the XIX century, which ended in global carneficine - and the next time it will be so much worse.
  - mangodrunk 8mo ago
    Thanks for clarifying your position. I do see that model as only temporarily possible but eventually reality catches up with the propaganda, the Iraq war being a somewhat recent example. Also, as a citizen the previous model is also essentially requiring the government to lie to us, so I don’t think that as good either, because who will be benefiting from these “good guy” adventures?

mannanj 9mo ago

Then don't watch "Everything is a Rich Man's Trick" that was what showed me a bit of the under dealings of how that organization was structured and created. Spoiler: The CIA was formed around rich people's interests and continue to represent them, not in fact, the American people. Harsh reality but helpful to know.