4 ms·

German here, with little stakes in your shitshow. At no point during the obama years did I think: "Wow this looks just like the rise of the nazis!" Which was

by j-pb 8mo ago

German here, with little stakes in your shitshow. At no point during the obama years did I think: "Wow this looks just like the rise of the nazis!" Which was covered extensively during my history classes. Why did you even have all the school schootings if you don't use that stupid second ammendmend thing you have? This is the tyranical government you've all been waiting for.

franga2000 8mo ago
[flagged]
habinero 8mo ago
You can really tell which states actually fund their education programs by who understands this and who does not.
- jacquesm 8mo ago
  It's a disease and it is spreading, fast.
direwolf20 8mo ago
If you are German, then you are probably blind to the similarities between current German politics and the Nazis, so this is not a good point of comparison.
- account42 8mo ago
  But it's only Nazis if you disagree with them. After all, the whole point of drawing the comparison is to shut down any possibility for discussion and nuance - "people I don't like are just like the nazis so I don't need to treat those who who doesn't fully oppose them with any respect".
  - direwolf20 8mo ago
    The ones who are exterminating a race are the nazis
    - j-pb 8mo ago
      Which race?
      - direwolf20 8mo ago
        Palestinian
        hikkerl 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        donkeybeer 8mo ago
        Any race or group can be genocidal. What's so special about Israelis?
        account42 8mo ago
        Unfortunately the extend of what the average person seems to have learned from WW2 is jews = innocent victims, german/non-jew nationalism = evil.
        donkeybeer 8mo ago
        To me all nationalism sucks, but yes my main point was genocidal extremism isn't really a unique property that jews or any other group are immune to.
  - j-pb 8mo ago
    Again, I have little stakes in your shitshow besides the international meddling they do with our own faschist party. This dualist thinking seems to be a particular US thing, based on your two party system. I see the erosion of the rule of law and decency in the US, the persecution of minorities, the populism, the defamation of journalism as "lügenpresse" and alignment of media to the party line, the personal police force (what the fuck is ICE doing in Italy), the person cult around a single madman, the violence without consequence, the fancy SS/SA style cosplay uniform by the head of ICE, and I think "that looks a lot like the stuff we learned about in school".
  - mindslight 8mo ago
    > After all, the whole point of drawing the comparison [to Nazis] is to shut down any possibility for discussion and nuance Another way of phrasing this is that it's a call to stop assuming good faith discussion on the part of the boosters, stop being derailed by pondering nuance, and focus on putting the brakes on the new Nazi movement. History doesn't repeat but we're teetering on the edge of a large-scale horrific rhyme. Regardless of one's preferred policies regarding immigration, there is zero justification for where we're at.
- j-pb 8mo ago
  Which politics are you referring to? The AfD ("Alternative for Germany") who has been classified as a confirmed right-wing extremist organization by the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution? And which has heavy ties to trump, musk, and the current U.S. government? Just because we currently have our own right wing populist faschists rearing their heads again, doesn't mean that the parallels of the current events in the US and the rise of the Nazis aren't real and glaring to someone who has had this as part of their basic education curriculum. https://web.archive.org/web/20250503162240/https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/DE/2025/pressemitteilung-2025-05-02.html https://web.archive.org/web/20250503162240/https://www.verfa...
  - direwolf20 8mo ago
    All parties of the government support and pay for ethnic cleansing in the middle east.
    - j-pb 8mo ago
      What does that have to do with the situation in the US? The situation in the middle east is completely orthogonal to that, and observing the rise of faschism there says nothing about my stance on the current german foreign policy in regards to the middle east. If you want to know: In my personal opinion that conflict is fucked beyond repair because a small group of powerful people on both sides benefit from it, while a huge number of deep interpersonal conflicts and histories fuel it, with any moderates getting squashed by their own side. So I wouldn't send weapons, but I'd send humanitarian aid or the blue helmets. That whole region is thoroughly fucked beyond my pay grade.
- Steltek 8mo ago
  Yeeeaaaah, I dunno if you wanna go there while the US is investing $100B in state sponsored ethnic cleansing, terrorism, and concentration camps. Glass houses, stones, etc.
  - direwolf20 8mo ago
    Germany invests less than that, but Germany is a smaller country. I'm not sure how much it is per capita.
account42 8mo ago
Perhaps "what you thought then and now" is the difference between those times more than "what happened then and now". With the former being largely influenced by "what your bubble told you then and now".
- j-pb 8mo ago
  “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
  - learingsci 8mo ago
    We don’t have good data because it’s illegal to, for example, ask citizenship status on our census, but if you believe the numbers many democrats cite, Obama deported more immigrants than Trump. You can use Google to verify that though I’ll warn you the rabbit hole runs deep when it comes to official statistics. Importantly, under Trump we have far more violent felons to deport. The media thrives on salacious and emotionally charged stories rather unbiased reporting based on nuanced facts. It’s the entertainment industry. The recent tragedies are indeed thoroughly depressing for all of us, but we shouldn’t let our emotional reactions destroy our ability to reason and think objectively about history and statistics. We can feel and think. Some of us believe enforcement of laws is the villain in this. Some feel the laws themselves or the idea of borders and sovereignty are to blame. Others that a surge of violent criminals such as those who killed Jocylan Nungary or Laken Riley is the cause of the recent tragedies. None of these views are inherently evil. All of these views have some merit. Truth is manifold. Don’t be narrow minded, we need broad thinking not simplistic pathos driven dogmas and references to nazis. Grow up.
    - j-pb 8mo ago
      The number of deportations under obama was definitely higher, but he had only one concentration camp (guantanamo bay), and didn't use that for his own people. Learn about the tolerance paradoxon, there is no negotiating, nuance and reasoning with fashists. Your enlightened centrism is nothing but smoke and mirrors. Get educated.

by j-pb 8mo ago

franga2000 8mo ago

[flagged]

habinero 8mo ago

You can really tell which states actually fund their education programs by who understands this and who does not.

jacquesm 8mo ago
It's a disease and it is spreading, fast.

direwolf20 8mo ago

If you are German, then you are probably blind to the similarities between current German politics and the Nazis, so this is not a good point of comparison.

account42 8mo ago
But it's only Nazis if you disagree with them. After all, the whole point of drawing the comparison is to shut down any possibility for discussion and nuance - "people I don't like are just like the nazis so I don't need to treat those who who doesn't fully oppose them with any respect".
- direwolf20 8mo ago
  The ones who are exterminating a race are the nazis
  - j-pb 8mo ago
    Which race?
    - direwolf20 8mo ago
      Palestinian
      - hikkerl 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        donkeybeer 8mo ago
        Any race or group can be genocidal. What's so special about Israelis?
        account42 8mo ago
        Unfortunately the extend of what the average person seems to have learned from WW2 is jews = innocent victims, german/non-jew nationalism = evil.
        donkeybeer 8mo ago
        To me all nationalism sucks, but yes my main point was genocidal extremism isn't really a unique property that jews or any other group are immune to.
- j-pb 8mo ago
  Again, I have little stakes in your shitshow besides the international meddling they do with our own faschist party. This dualist thinking seems to be a particular US thing, based on your two party system. I see the erosion of the rule of law and decency in the US, the persecution of minorities, the populism, the defamation of journalism as "lügenpresse" and alignment of media to the party line, the personal police force (what the fuck is ICE doing in Italy), the person cult around a single madman, the violence without consequence, the fancy SS/SA style cosplay uniform by the head of ICE, and I think "that looks a lot like the stuff we learned about in school".
- mindslight 8mo ago
  > After all, the whole point of drawing the comparison [to Nazis] is to shut down any possibility for discussion and nuance Another way of phrasing this is that it's a call to stop assuming good faith discussion on the part of the boosters, stop being derailed by pondering nuance, and focus on putting the brakes on the new Nazi movement. History doesn't repeat but we're teetering on the edge of a large-scale horrific rhyme. Regardless of one's preferred policies regarding immigration, there is zero justification for where we're at.
j-pb 8mo ago
Which politics are you referring to? The AfD ("Alternative for Germany") who has been classified as a confirmed right-wing extremist organization by the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution? And which has heavy ties to trump, musk, and the current U.S. government? Just because we currently have our own right wing populist faschists rearing their heads again, doesn't mean that the parallels of the current events in the US and the rise of the Nazis aren't real and glaring to someone who has had this as part of their basic education curriculum. https://web.archive.org/web/20250503162240/https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/DE/2025/pressemitteilung-2025-05-02.html https://web.archive.org/web/20250503162240/https://www.verfa...
- direwolf20 8mo ago
  All parties of the government support and pay for ethnic cleansing in the middle east.
  - j-pb 8mo ago
    What does that have to do with the situation in the US? The situation in the middle east is completely orthogonal to that, and observing the rise of faschism there says nothing about my stance on the current german foreign policy in regards to the middle east. If you want to know: In my personal opinion that conflict is fucked beyond repair because a small group of powerful people on both sides benefit from it, while a huge number of deep interpersonal conflicts and histories fuel it, with any moderates getting squashed by their own side. So I wouldn't send weapons, but I'd send humanitarian aid or the blue helmets. That whole region is thoroughly fucked beyond my pay grade.
Steltek 8mo ago
Yeeeaaaah, I dunno if you wanna go there while the US is investing $100B in state sponsored ethnic cleansing, terrorism, and concentration camps. Glass houses, stones, etc.
- direwolf20 8mo ago
  Germany invests less than that, but Germany is a smaller country. I'm not sure how much it is per capita.

account42 8mo ago

Perhaps "what you thought then and now" is the difference between those times more than "what happened then and now". With the former being largely influenced by "what your bubble told you then and now".

j-pb 8mo ago
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
- learingsci 8mo ago
  We don’t have good data because it’s illegal to, for example, ask citizenship status on our census, but if you believe the numbers many democrats cite, Obama deported more immigrants than Trump. You can use Google to verify that though I’ll warn you the rabbit hole runs deep when it comes to official statistics. Importantly, under Trump we have far more violent felons to deport. The media thrives on salacious and emotionally charged stories rather unbiased reporting based on nuanced facts. It’s the entertainment industry. The recent tragedies are indeed thoroughly depressing for all of us, but we shouldn’t let our emotional reactions destroy our ability to reason and think objectively about history and statistics. We can feel and think. Some of us believe enforcement of laws is the villain in this. Some feel the laws themselves or the idea of borders and sovereignty are to blame. Others that a surge of violent criminals such as those who killed Jocylan Nungary or Laken Riley is the cause of the recent tragedies. None of these views are inherently evil. All of these views have some merit. Truth is manifold. Don’t be narrow minded, we need broad thinking not simplistic pathos driven dogmas and references to nazis. Grow up.
  - j-pb 8mo ago
    The number of deportations under obama was definitely higher, but he had only one concentration camp (guantanamo bay), and didn't use that for his own people. Learn about the tolerance paradoxon, there is no negotiating, nuance and reasoning with fashists. Your enlightened centrism is nothing but smoke and mirrors. Get educated.