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Startups are hard. Even big startups are hard. Zynga is startupy, even though they're public. There's a lot of schadenfreude on HN when it comes to Zynga. Art
by pud 14y ago
Startups are hard.
Even big startups are hard. Zynga is startupy, even though they're public.
There's a lot of schadenfreude on HN when it comes to Zynga. Articles about Zynga's problems regularly make it to the top of HN.
Some people think games are frivolous. They're not. Entertainment is (almost) a basic human need. Some people think Zynga players are somehow being tricked. They're not. They're being entertained.
Some people say that Zynga steals ideas. Firstly, I'm guessing 99% of the people who say that are just repeating something they've heard. The other 1% should know that everyone steals from everyone. Unless you're the first guy to ever make a dynamic website, have usernames, top-bar navigation... you stole a lot of ideas too. And the ideas you stole are more fundamental than the plot of a game.
(also, if you know my history (i used to make fun of companies like this for a living) yes, i understand the irony of me writing such a supportive comment.)
- MartinCron 14y agoSome people think games are frivolous. They're not I love games and don't think they are frivolous for a moment. I'm not sure what that has to do with a discussion of Zynga, though.
- pud 14y agoZynga is a company that makes online games. And people often criticize Zynga for making games (online games, Flash games, Facebook games, casual games, etc.)
- czhiddy 14y agoI think most of the criticism is about how Zynga is completely devoid of creativity and originality. They're the software equivalent of Chinese shanzhai electronics manufacturers.
- Karunamon 14y agoCalling the software that Zynga makes a "game" is insulting to real games. Zynga's are usually different skins on top of a number incrementing simulator (for example, anything with "ville" in the name), that happen to increase a little bit faster if you bug your friends (often and repeatedly) and have them increment their numbers too, and you can only increment your numbers so often - but more if you pay real cash money! There's usually no skill, no challenge, no fun, just a bald-faced hook into the effort/reward system in the mind. The closest thing Zynga has to real games are Bingo, Poker, and Words With Friends. I'm not even going to count that last one because they bought it from someone else.
- MartinCron 14y agoThank you. Glad to see that someone got my joke.
- jrockway 14y agoAll games can be boiled down to a one-phrase description. If you talk about real games, you can categorize them as "trick-taking" or "deck-building" and so on. The details are what make the games fun, not the basic mechanics. (Therefore, "increment a number" games could theoretically be fun. Though I personally find them more boring than watching paint dry. At least the paint eventually dries and you can move on to something else.)
- benihana 14y ago>Calling the software that Zynga makes a "game" is insulting to real games. No True Scotsman fallacy. Just because you don't think they're games doesn't make it fact. They make games, and people criticize them for it. The only thing your post did was help better prove OP's point.
- danilocampos 14y agoThey make crappy games and people criticize them for the crappiness, not the game part.
- Karunamon 14y ago>They make games, and people criticize them for it. First, Zynga is not criticized for making games, they're criticized for making Skinner boxes and passing them off as games. Quality, in other words. Second, just because you think they make games doesn't make it fact. Definition of a game per Google: A form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck. Zynga's "games" (with very few exceptions) lack any form of skill, strength, or luck. Push button, receive reward, pay us cash or spam your friends and you can push the button more often. That is literally all there is to most Zynga games. I'm not even engaging in hyperbole here! Compare with even the most grindtastic MMO's out there, even the most rehashed FPS or football franchise you can think of, and there's still a skill component that these wannabes can't grok.
- rscale 14y agoI view Zynga roughly the same way I'd view a casino where nobody ever booked a win. The parallels are strong, right down to Hosts for Whales who blow $10k+ while playing. I'm happy to see them fail because I firmly believe they violate the tenet that entities should create more value than they capture.
- kaonashi 14y ago>And people often criticize Zynga for making games That's not why people criticize Zynga, and I think you probably know that.
- Aloisius 14y agoGames can be won. Zynga mostly makes toys.
- btilly 14y agoThank you for the comment about your history. Back in the day I used to love Fuckedcompany.com. BTW did you hear about the dot-commies? They thought they had a right to everyone else's money.
- comlag 14y agoI agree with the almost all your points except about them stealing ideas. Ripping off the same game from indie developers is wrong. It isn't them using basic ideas like a top nav or usernames, there are examples of them copying entire games[1]. 1. http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/01/25/everything-wrong-with-zynga-in-one-image/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/01/25/everything...
- pud 14y ago> It isn't them using basic ideas like a top nav or usernames By "basic ideas" I assume you mean "ideas that are better and more useful, and therefore more widely ripped off." Your argument reminds me of when people say such-and-such band is so original -- yet it's another four guys playing guitar, bass, drums and vocals.
- comlag 14y agoMy argument is that Zynga stole another band's style and lyrics but changed the presentation slightly. They did not build on the 'basic ideas' like having a certain set of instruments.
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- danilocampos 14y agoGames are not frivolous. Games are an incredible opportunity for artistic expression, self-expression (for players), exploration of complicated topics, and overall fun. But Zynga doesn't make games. They make shitty frontends on a spreadsheet. As to their theft of products, that's not hearsay. That's an ongoing, provable patterns of behavior: http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/01/25/everything-wrong-with-zynga-in-one-image/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/01/25/everything...
- freshhawk 14y agoPrecisely. Slot machines aren't games, no matter what kind of animations you put in front of the slot machine mechanic.
- beedogs 14y ago> The other 1% should know that everyone steals from everyone. This is an absurd justification for the kind of outright theft Zynga has built an entire public corporation on.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- zerostar07 14y agoNobody steals like zynga. The worst part, they steal from small , non-VC-or-SV-connected indie developers and then they sue them. If they were in china or Russia, everyone would call them scum.