4 ms·

I say this with absolutely no judgement regarding the value of the iPad Mini, but I'm struck by the similarity between this criticism and the criticism leveled

by akavi 14y ago

I say this with absolutely no judgement regarding the value of the iPad Mini, but I'm struck by the similarity between this criticism and the criticism leveled against the original iPad ("it's just a giant iPod Touch!").

nirvana 14y ago
This is what apple haters say about every Apple product. They said the iPhone would be a total flop and never sell the 10 million units Steve Jobs said they hoped to sell-- because it didn't have a hardware keyboard. They said it about the iPod too- claiming that having less capacity than the creative nomad and no built in radio made it "lame" (CmdrTaco famously said this.) They said it about the iMac as well, calling it a toy computer that looked like candy. Funny how in 2 years all the other manufacturers were making their computers colorful, and the bondi-blue design aesthetic was adopted by a wide variety of products around the world. Now I'm sure somewhere there are people who were not even 10 years old when the iMac was being put down are saying the iPad mini is lame. For the same reasons. Then when the product strikes a nerve with the public, and sells 100 million units, they decide that the people buying it must be stupid and persuaded by slick marketing, because obviously its "lame" or "doesn't have the specs" of the competition (though they never detail how it lacks specs and usually they're completely wrong and ignoring the terrible usability of the competition.) It's the standard issue mythology of the apple hater: Apple products are inferior (even when they aren't.) Apple products are more expensive (even though they aren't.) Apple buyers are stupid and easily persuaded by slick marketing (even though it should be obvious that people buy Apple products because they work better for them.) Consequently, EVERY Apple product introduction is "underwhelming".
- untog 14y ago
  Any discussion involving the terms "apple hater" or "apple fanboy" immediately disappears into a hole of stupidity. That said, Apple are inviting some of these comparisons. "More expensive", for example. The iPad Mini is more expensive than a Nexus 7, by a significant margin. Apple invited the comparison by comparing the two devices themselves on stage.
  - jpxxx 14y ago
    Google should be delighted. I've yet to find a "normal" who is aware that anyone else sells "iPads". And Amazon doesn't count, they sell "Kindles". No amount of competitive marketing seems to have brought the two product families into competition beyond "well I heard the iPad has books too but my friend loves her Kindle".
    - untog 14y ago
      I'm yet to find a "normal" that watches Apple Keynotes, though.
      - jpxxx 14y ago
        Good point. :)
      - bennyg 14y ago
        You aren't on my Twitter timeline then.
      - bruceboughton 14y ago
        No but the iPad Mini was above-the-fold breaking news on the BBC news website before the keynote was even over.
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      Nobody else could sell a product called iPad without getting sued.
      - jpxxx 14y ago
        Yeah, but customers don't know that. "iPad" is the Kleenex of tablets. The only reason the Galaxy Note gets a pass is because it's still mentally categorized as a big telephone.
        Adirael 14y ago
- smackfu 14y ago
  It's possible to criticize Apple without hating them. And "underwhelming" is not a synonym for "terrible".
- solnyshok 14y ago
  Could you enlighten us about how apple products aren't expensive?
  - Adirael 14y ago
    Compare a MBP with a similarly built laptop. Dont pick up a plastic built or one with a shitty trackpad. Built quality IS hardware too. Same for iMacs. Don't compare an iMac with a clone in a tower. Compare it to a similar form factor: all in one, quiet, low power consumption.
    - fpgeek 14y ago
      Try shopping a MacBook Pro against an equivalently configured T-series ThinkPad from Lenovo. The price difference is usually huge (more than 30% cheaper for the entry-level 15-inch configuration I tried) and gets even worse if you spend a few minutes to Google up an applicable Lenovo coupon.
      - betterth 14y ago
        LOL as someone using a Lenovo, right now, let me just say this: If you buy it over an Apple, you get what you deserve. The quality from Lenovo has been declining since they bought the brand from IBM. Thinkpad's are a SHADOW of their former glory, sadly. Here's something people don't factor in when buying laptops: Your expensive MacBook Pro is having issues? Well, visit an Apple store and get it fixed! Your expensive Lenovo is having issues? Well... mail it back... But you still didn't make the comparison, you told other people to do it. Until you make the comparison, I'm still betting that the Lenovo cuts corners in a variety of ways to make the product cheaper, and as a consumer you have to accept those cost-cutting trade offs.
  - rayiner 14y ago
    It's a disagreement about the definition of "expensive." Apple products are more expensive than other products in the same general category. They are not more expensive than their direct competitors. For example, while there are laptops much cheaper than the Air, the ultra books with similar specs, weight, battery life, and build quality aren't really cheaper. Another way to look at is that while Apple doesn't sell a $500 laptop, you don't get less in a $1,200 MBA than comparable $1,200 PC laptops.
- ceejayoz 14y ago
  The iPod mini was also widely mocked by the tech crowd - it was $249 to the iPod's $299, with much smaller (like 1/10th, IIRC) storage space. Turns out it became the best selling iPod of all time.
samstokes 14y ago
He's not criticising the product, he's criticising the marketing.
- Flow 14y ago
  Read the front of an Everglade spray can. I think it says "The Essence of Nature". Then read the back. The back is full of skulls... While I agree some of the texts on the iPad mini page could have been better written, it's as usual just marketing speak designed to push interested customers that extra cm they need to do a purchase.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    Well that sounds about right, the essence of nature is that everything dies.
    - StavrosK 14y ago
      Plus, you know, hemlock, poisonous animals and plants, cyanide, etc etc.
    - freehunter 14y ago
      And also everything is poisonous when condensed enough. Essence usually means condensed to a high content.
lukifer 14y ago
In fairness, that specific marketing line is more than a little silly: it can't be both smaller than an iPad and as big at the same time; both devices can't be the "perfect" size when they are different. Like all tech companies, Apple needs to be able to do subtle iterations and improvements, and their marketing teams are left to try to add an "r" to every evolution.
- Flow 14y ago
  The experience can be perfect no matter what size it is :)
- rbanffy 14y ago
  > both devices can't be the "perfect" size when they are different. Unless they are designed for different usage scenarios.
- ColinDabritz 14y ago
  It's certainly a marketing line with plenty of exageration, but I don't think it's particularly unusual. "At 7.9 inches, it’s perfectly sized to deliver an experience every bit as big as iPad" It's "perfectly sized" for the role it's filling (one hand, more mobile, like a pulp novel, whatever), and iPad is "perfectly sized" for it's own role (around the house, larger games, magazine reading, whatever). They can both be "perfectly sized" in a marketing world, and I'm sure the design team fussed over the exact dimensions for a LONG time. It's "an experience" "as big as the iPad" to emphasize that it will run all the existing apps, vs their comparisons to a "scaled up phone experience". The marketing here emphasizes that the compact experience is 'just as good'. I do wonder how well UI elements will scale down, but in a marketing world it makes a certain kind of sense to me. Yes, these claims are a bit silly, especially in a literal sense, but recall that the original iPad was "magical". It's pretty typical marketing phrasing, especially for Apple. That said, I frequently find the phrasing funny too.
msbarnett 14y ago
To crib from Andrew Plotkin, there are only two reviews of Apple products: "Nothing new, no one will buy it" and "It's too radical, no one will buy it"

by akavi 14y ago

nirvana 14y ago

This is what apple haters say about every Apple product. They said the iPhone would be a total flop and never sell the 10 million units Steve Jobs said they hoped to sell-- because it didn't have a hardware keyboard. They said it about the iPod too- claiming that having less capacity than the creative nomad and no built in radio made it "lame" (CmdrTaco famously said this.) They said it about the iMac as well, calling it a toy computer that looked like candy. Funny how in 2 years all the other manufacturers were making their computers colorful, and the bondi-blue design aesthetic was adopted by a wide variety of products around the world. Now I'm sure somewhere there are people who were not even 10 years old when the iMac was being put down are saying the iPad mini is lame. For the same reasons. Then when the product strikes a nerve with the public, and sells 100 million units, they decide that the people buying it must be stupid and persuaded by slick marketing, because obviously its "lame" or "doesn't have the specs" of the competition (though they never detail how it lacks specs and usually they're completely wrong and ignoring the terrible usability of the competition.) It's the standard issue mythology of the apple hater: Apple products are inferior (even when they aren't.) Apple products are more expensive (even though they aren't.) Apple buyers are stupid and easily persuaded by slick marketing (even though it should be obvious that people buy Apple products because they work better for them.) Consequently, EVERY Apple product introduction is "underwhelming".

untog 14y ago
Any discussion involving the terms "apple hater" or "apple fanboy" immediately disappears into a hole of stupidity. That said, Apple are inviting some of these comparisons. "More expensive", for example. The iPad Mini is more expensive than a Nexus 7, by a significant margin. Apple invited the comparison by comparing the two devices themselves on stage.
- jpxxx 14y ago
  Google should be delighted. I've yet to find a "normal" who is aware that anyone else sells "iPads". And Amazon doesn't count, they sell "Kindles". No amount of competitive marketing seems to have brought the two product families into competition beyond "well I heard the iPad has books too but my friend loves her Kindle".
  - untog 14y ago
    I'm yet to find a "normal" that watches Apple Keynotes, though.
    - jpxxx 14y ago
      Good point. :)
    - bennyg 14y ago
      You aren't on my Twitter timeline then.
    - bruceboughton 14y ago
      No but the iPad Mini was above-the-fold breaking news on the BBC news website before the keynote was even over.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    Nobody else could sell a product called iPad without getting sued.
    - jpxxx 14y ago
      Yeah, but customers don't know that. "iPad" is the Kleenex of tablets. The only reason the Galaxy Note gets a pass is because it's still mentally categorized as a big telephone.
      - Adirael 14y ago
smackfu 14y ago
It's possible to criticize Apple without hating them. And "underwhelming" is not a synonym for "terrible".
solnyshok 14y ago
Could you enlighten us about how apple products aren't expensive?
- Adirael 14y ago
  Compare a MBP with a similarly built laptop. Dont pick up a plastic built or one with a shitty trackpad. Built quality IS hardware too. Same for iMacs. Don't compare an iMac with a clone in a tower. Compare it to a similar form factor: all in one, quiet, low power consumption.
  - fpgeek 14y ago
    Try shopping a MacBook Pro against an equivalently configured T-series ThinkPad from Lenovo. The price difference is usually huge (more than 30% cheaper for the entry-level 15-inch configuration I tried) and gets even worse if you spend a few minutes to Google up an applicable Lenovo coupon.
    - betterth 14y ago
      LOL as someone using a Lenovo, right now, let me just say this: If you buy it over an Apple, you get what you deserve. The quality from Lenovo has been declining since they bought the brand from IBM. Thinkpad's are a SHADOW of their former glory, sadly. Here's something people don't factor in when buying laptops: Your expensive MacBook Pro is having issues? Well, visit an Apple store and get it fixed! Your expensive Lenovo is having issues? Well... mail it back... But you still didn't make the comparison, you told other people to do it. Until you make the comparison, I'm still betting that the Lenovo cuts corners in a variety of ways to make the product cheaper, and as a consumer you have to accept those cost-cutting trade offs.
- rayiner 14y ago
  It's a disagreement about the definition of "expensive." Apple products are more expensive than other products in the same general category. They are not more expensive than their direct competitors. For example, while there are laptops much cheaper than the Air, the ultra books with similar specs, weight, battery life, and build quality aren't really cheaper. Another way to look at is that while Apple doesn't sell a $500 laptop, you don't get less in a $1,200 MBA than comparable $1,200 PC laptops.
ceejayoz 14y ago
The iPod mini was also widely mocked by the tech crowd - it was $249 to the iPod's $299, with much smaller (like 1/10th, IIRC) storage space. Turns out it became the best selling iPod of all time.

samstokes 14y ago

He's not criticising the product, he's criticising the marketing.

Flow 14y ago
Read the front of an Everglade spray can. I think it says "The Essence of Nature". Then read the back. The back is full of skulls... While I agree some of the texts on the iPad mini page could have been better written, it's as usual just marketing speak designed to push interested customers that extra cm they need to do a purchase.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  Well that sounds about right, the essence of nature is that everything dies.
  - StavrosK 14y ago
    Plus, you know, hemlock, poisonous animals and plants, cyanide, etc etc.
  - freehunter 14y ago
    And also everything is poisonous when condensed enough. Essence usually means condensed to a high content.

lukifer 14y ago

In fairness, that specific marketing line is more than a little silly: it can't be both smaller than an iPad and as big at the same time; both devices can't be the "perfect" size when they are different. Like all tech companies, Apple needs to be able to do subtle iterations and improvements, and their marketing teams are left to try to add an "r" to every evolution.

Flow 14y ago
The experience can be perfect no matter what size it is :)
rbanffy 14y ago
> both devices can't be the "perfect" size when they are different. Unless they are designed for different usage scenarios.
ColinDabritz 14y ago
It's certainly a marketing line with plenty of exageration, but I don't think it's particularly unusual. "At 7.9 inches, it’s perfectly sized to deliver an experience every bit as big as iPad" It's "perfectly sized" for the role it's filling (one hand, more mobile, like a pulp novel, whatever), and iPad is "perfectly sized" for it's own role (around the house, larger games, magazine reading, whatever). They can both be "perfectly sized" in a marketing world, and I'm sure the design team fussed over the exact dimensions for a LONG time. It's "an experience" "as big as the iPad" to emphasize that it will run all the existing apps, vs their comparisons to a "scaled up phone experience". The marketing here emphasizes that the compact experience is 'just as good'. I do wonder how well UI elements will scale down, but in a marketing world it makes a certain kind of sense to me. Yes, these claims are a bit silly, especially in a literal sense, but recall that the original iPad was "magical". It's pretty typical marketing phrasing, especially for Apple. That said, I frequently find the phrasing funny too.

msbarnett 14y ago

To crib from Andrew Plotkin, there are only two reviews of Apple products: "Nothing new, no one will buy it" and "It's too radical, no one will buy it"