5 ms·

Facts are not a thing the government is interested in now

by mavhc 8mo ago

rbanffy 8mo ago
Nor is soft power. The factbook was much more a tool for propaganda than anything else. While you could trust most of the numbers, you shouldn’t expect it to be fair about any socialist or communist countries, usually classified as brutal dictatorships, while it would always be exceedingly kind to countries with US sponsored dictators.
- pxc 8mo ago
  Yep. This seems somewhat similar in motivation to the cuts to USAID.
- shevy-java 8mo ago
  While that is true, the current government makes heavy use of propaganda too.
  - rbanffy 8mo ago
    True, but they have abandoned the subtlety of the factbook.
    - edsu 8mo ago
      The suggestion that obvious propaganda is somehow better than "subtle" propaganda is itself propaganda.
      - rbanffy 8mo ago
        Obvious propaganda plays a role in the destruction of a shared objective reality, which is part of the authoritarian playbook. Subtle propaganda distorts reality but preserves the notion of a shared objective one and does not intend to undermine trust. When a government uses blatant, easily disproven lies, but doubles down on the lies and continues with increasingly absurd ones, there is no space for subtlety or trustworthy sources in that government.
- eldavido 8mo ago
  I'd be interested to see concrete examples of this, if they exist.
  - throwawayq3423 8mo ago
    I would also like to see a comparison to prove the point.
  - verdverm 8mo ago
    by "this"... that the current US govt isn't interested in soft power?
    - pseudalopex 8mo ago
      They wanted examples of propaganda in the World Factbook probably.
      - rbanffy 8mo ago
        It starts with framing the CIA as a neutral entity, which it is not. It's a form of metapropaganda, in which a propaganda outlet characterizes itself as a neutral provider of information. One example that comes to mind is Patrice Lumumba's assassination, allegedly authorized by the American government. There is no mention to Lumumba's government that started in 1960. Venezuela's entry has the same issue pointed out in the DPRK's - the negative impact of sanctions imposed by the US on the economy is not mentioned, and is described as "chaotic economy due to political corruption". It is subtle, but it is propaganda as well.
- nl 8mo ago
  > you shouldn’t expect it to be fair about any socialist or communist countries, usually classified as brutal dictatorships, The World Fact Book doesn't have this kind of commentary. For example read the entry on North Korea. I've excerpted the most critical parts here, and I think they are a long way from your characterization: > After the end of Soviet aid in 1991, North Korea faced serious economic setbacks that exacerbated decades of economic mismanagement and resource misallocation. > New economic development plans in the 2010s failed to meet government-mandated goals for key industrial sectors, food production, or overall economic performance. At the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, North Korea instituted a nationwide lockdown that severely restricted its economy and international engagement. > As of 2024, despite slowly renewing cross-border trade with China, North Korea remained one of the world's most isolated countries and one of Asia's poorest https://web.archive.org/web/20260103000011/https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/korea-north/ https://web.archive.org/web/20260103000011/https://www.cia.g...
  - fkdjdshkajdh 8mo ago
    Blaming DPRK's "economic mismanagement" while making no mention of the Western sanctions on DPRK which are the cause of its catastrophic economic and humanitarian situation, as well as its isolation. Yep, that's a classic trick with State Department propaganda. There are never any huge whoppers, instead the lies they tell are through omission and the subtle shifting of blame ("If Venezuela didn't want to be bombed, they should have given us their oil", etc) in order to craft a narrative that's incongruent with reality.
    - neoromantique 8mo ago
      >Blaming DPRK's "economic mismanagement" while making no mention of the Western sanctions on DPRK which are the cause of its catastrophic economic and humanitarian situation The catastrophic humanitarian situation IS the cause for the sanctions.
      - red-iron-pine 8mo ago
        also the nukes. and shooting missiles over japan. parent poster seems to want to ignore their decades of poor behavior and sheer brutality. e.g. NK just executed people for watching squid game.
mr_toad 8mo ago
> Facts are not a thing the government is interested in now They’re not too keen on the world either. Or books.
red-iron-pine 8mo ago
in particular, these are facts that are officially released by an organ of the US Government responsible for accurate information. these details are useful for things like immigration and asylum cases, and other complaints that involve the FedGov.

Facts are not a thing the government is interested in now

by mavhc 8mo ago

Facts are not a thing the government is interested in now

Nor is soft power. The factbook was much more a tool for propaganda than anything else. While you could trust most of the numbers, you shouldn’t expect it to be fair about any socialist or communist countries, usually classified as brutal dictatorships, while it would always be exceedingly kind to countries with US sponsored dictators.

pxc 8mo ago
Yep. This seems somewhat similar in motivation to the cuts to USAID.
shevy-java 8mo ago
While that is true, the current government makes heavy use of propaganda too.
- rbanffy 8mo ago
  True, but they have abandoned the subtlety of the factbook.
  - edsu 8mo ago
    The suggestion that obvious propaganda is somehow better than "subtle" propaganda is itself propaganda.
    - rbanffy 8mo ago
      Obvious propaganda plays a role in the destruction of a shared objective reality, which is part of the authoritarian playbook. Subtle propaganda distorts reality but preserves the notion of a shared objective one and does not intend to undermine trust. When a government uses blatant, easily disproven lies, but doubles down on the lies and continues with increasingly absurd ones, there is no space for subtlety or trustworthy sources in that government.
eldavido 8mo ago
I'd be interested to see concrete examples of this, if they exist.
- throwawayq3423 8mo ago
  I would also like to see a comparison to prove the point.
- verdverm 8mo ago
  by "this"... that the current US govt isn't interested in soft power?
  - pseudalopex 8mo ago
    They wanted examples of propaganda in the World Factbook probably.
    - rbanffy 8mo ago
      It starts with framing the CIA as a neutral entity, which it is not. It's a form of metapropaganda, in which a propaganda outlet characterizes itself as a neutral provider of information. One example that comes to mind is Patrice Lumumba's assassination, allegedly authorized by the American government. There is no mention to Lumumba's government that started in 1960. Venezuela's entry has the same issue pointed out in the DPRK's - the negative impact of sanctions imposed by the US on the economy is not mentioned, and is described as "chaotic economy due to political corruption". It is subtle, but it is propaganda as well.
nl 8mo ago
> you shouldn’t expect it to be fair about any socialist or communist countries, usually classified as brutal dictatorships, The World Fact Book doesn't have this kind of commentary. For example read the entry on North Korea. I've excerpted the most critical parts here, and I think they are a long way from your characterization: > After the end of Soviet aid in 1991, North Korea faced serious economic setbacks that exacerbated decades of economic mismanagement and resource misallocation. > New economic development plans in the 2010s failed to meet government-mandated goals for key industrial sectors, food production, or overall economic performance. At the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, North Korea instituted a nationwide lockdown that severely restricted its economy and international engagement. > As of 2024, despite slowly renewing cross-border trade with China, North Korea remained one of the world's most isolated countries and one of Asia's poorest https://web.archive.org/web/20260103000011/https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/korea-north/ https://web.archive.org/web/20260103000011/https://www.cia.g...
- fkdjdshkajdh 8mo ago
  Blaming DPRK's "economic mismanagement" while making no mention of the Western sanctions on DPRK which are the cause of its catastrophic economic and humanitarian situation, as well as its isolation. Yep, that's a classic trick with State Department propaganda. There are never any huge whoppers, instead the lies they tell are through omission and the subtle shifting of blame ("If Venezuela didn't want to be bombed, they should have given us their oil", etc) in order to craft a narrative that's incongruent with reality.
  - neoromantique 8mo ago
    >Blaming DPRK's "economic mismanagement" while making no mention of the Western sanctions on DPRK which are the cause of its catastrophic economic and humanitarian situation The catastrophic humanitarian situation IS the cause for the sanctions.
    - red-iron-pine 8mo ago
      also the nukes. and shooting missiles over japan. parent poster seems to want to ignore their decades of poor behavior and sheer brutality. e.g. NK just executed people for watching squid game.

mr_toad 8mo ago

> Facts are not a thing the government is interested in now They’re not too keen on the world either. Or books.

red-iron-pine 8mo ago

in particular, these are facts that are officially released by an organ of the US Government responsible for accurate information. these details are useful for things like immigration and asylum cases, and other complaints that involve the FedGov.