4 ms·

You can say the same thing about gold.

BadBadJellyBean 8mo ago
At least gold is a physical good that has some use. I don't like gold speculations but bitcoins are literally just bits in a distributed database. But that is not even the problem. Most money is digital. The problem is the acceptance. It's primary use seems to be just trading it back and forth without trading it for goods.
- slicktux 8mo ago
  They are bits that are cryptographically true and unique. It may not be tangible but now we are getting into philosophy of mathematics and whether math is real or not? I believe in math therefore I believe in cryptography.
  - BadBadJellyBean 8mo ago
    They are unique but they will cease to exist if everyone stops mining and doesn't keep a backup. They are just charges on a storage medium. You cannot use them for anything but to either keep in a wallet or move around. The transactions might be immutable but they are not persistent if not constantly tended to. Gold will stay gold for a long time without intervention. Most normal currencies are the same as bitcoin/crypto in that they are mostly digital but at least they have some mostly agreed upon value within their system. They don't need to be converted to another currency to find out which goods I can exchange for them.
    - bad_haircut72 8mo ago
      Im not a crypto person I own zero cryptocurrency - yes, it will only ever be worth what someone thinks its worth. If it all gets turned off it goes to zero, but if the network is up and someone is willing to act as an exchange, it will have value - even if it drops back to 10c. If it has some value, it can be used to move that value around. If it can be used to move that value around, then people will think it has value. Thus I dont think bitcoin is going away, though its value relative to USD could go anywhere
    - littlecranky67 8mo ago
      > Most normal currencies are the same as bitcoin/crypto in that they are mostly digital but at least they have some mostly agreed upon value within their system The Dollar has an agreed-upon value of 1 Dollar per Dollar, the Euro of 1 Euro per Euro and the Bitcoin of 1 Bitcoin per Bitcoin. There are no agreed-upon values in any currency in free market. In socialism, they would dictate that a pound of butter had to cost 1unit of some currency. But in capitalist free markets, the value of a currency is always measured realtive to others things, being it goods (such as a standardized shopping baskets used for CPI) or other currencies or assets. For example, there is no way to determine if the dollar raised or fell - it always has a value of one dollar. But there is the DXY ("dixie") dollar index, where the value of the dollar is measured by its trading price with a basket of other currencies. Now if the DXY falls, you can say the dollar lost value. You could also say, the foreign currencies increased in value. It is always relative. Plus, 100 dollars bought a whole lot of things 50 years ago, a lot less things 30 years ago, and today the same 100$ buy a lot less than that. There is no agreed upon value, it is supply and demand.
  - osigurdson 8mo ago
    >> I believe in math therefore I believe in cryptography You aren't really believing in math. Doubling the number of Bitcoin in the world is not blocked by mathematics (trivially change the constant in the source code), it is blocked by a consensus of humans believing in the artificial scarcity that a system robustly provides. For instance, if Bitcoin ever adopts post quantum cryptography, the math breaks - it is a technical fork. But, since a vast majority of participants (maintainers, miners and holders) will likely agree that it is a good idea this new fork will be named "Bitcoin" and everyone will be happy. Not math at all, rather a broad consensus among humans. I'm not suggesting Bitcoin is a bad investment at all, but believing in it because it "is math" is not correct.
  - Revolution1120 8mo ago
    Mathematics does not actually exist; it is merely a simplification of geometry. Without geometry, mathematics would not exist.
- bediger4000 8mo ago
  You left out paying ransom, buying illegal guns and drugs, evading taxes, evading sanctions, settling inter-cartel debts, and bribing certain important world leaders
  - longitudinal93 8mo ago
    The USD still rules (by several magnitudes) for the use cases you mention.

At least gold is a physical good that has some use. I don't like gold speculations but bitcoins are literally just bits in a distributed database. But that is not even the problem. Most money is digital. The problem is the acceptance. It's primary use seems to be just trading it back and forth without trading it for goods.

slicktux 8mo ago
They are bits that are cryptographically true and unique. It may not be tangible but now we are getting into philosophy of mathematics and whether math is real or not? I believe in math therefore I believe in cryptography.
- BadBadJellyBean 8mo ago
  They are unique but they will cease to exist if everyone stops mining and doesn't keep a backup. They are just charges on a storage medium. You cannot use them for anything but to either keep in a wallet or move around. The transactions might be immutable but they are not persistent if not constantly tended to. Gold will stay gold for a long time without intervention. Most normal currencies are the same as bitcoin/crypto in that they are mostly digital but at least they have some mostly agreed upon value within their system. They don't need to be converted to another currency to find out which goods I can exchange for them.
  - bad_haircut72 8mo ago
    Im not a crypto person I own zero cryptocurrency - yes, it will only ever be worth what someone thinks its worth. If it all gets turned off it goes to zero, but if the network is up and someone is willing to act as an exchange, it will have value - even if it drops back to 10c. If it has some value, it can be used to move that value around. If it can be used to move that value around, then people will think it has value. Thus I dont think bitcoin is going away, though its value relative to USD could go anywhere
  - littlecranky67 8mo ago
    > Most normal currencies are the same as bitcoin/crypto in that they are mostly digital but at least they have some mostly agreed upon value within their system The Dollar has an agreed-upon value of 1 Dollar per Dollar, the Euro of 1 Euro per Euro and the Bitcoin of 1 Bitcoin per Bitcoin. There are no agreed-upon values in any currency in free market. In socialism, they would dictate that a pound of butter had to cost 1unit of some currency. But in capitalist free markets, the value of a currency is always measured realtive to others things, being it goods (such as a standardized shopping baskets used for CPI) or other currencies or assets. For example, there is no way to determine if the dollar raised or fell - it always has a value of one dollar. But there is the DXY ("dixie") dollar index, where the value of the dollar is measured by its trading price with a basket of other currencies. Now if the DXY falls, you can say the dollar lost value. You could also say, the foreign currencies increased in value. It is always relative. Plus, 100 dollars bought a whole lot of things 50 years ago, a lot less things 30 years ago, and today the same 100$ buy a lot less than that. There is no agreed upon value, it is supply and demand.
- osigurdson 8mo ago
  >> I believe in math therefore I believe in cryptography You aren't really believing in math. Doubling the number of Bitcoin in the world is not blocked by mathematics (trivially change the constant in the source code), it is blocked by a consensus of humans believing in the artificial scarcity that a system robustly provides. For instance, if Bitcoin ever adopts post quantum cryptography, the math breaks - it is a technical fork. But, since a vast majority of participants (maintainers, miners and holders) will likely agree that it is a good idea this new fork will be named "Bitcoin" and everyone will be happy. Not math at all, rather a broad consensus among humans. I'm not suggesting Bitcoin is a bad investment at all, but believing in it because it "is math" is not correct.
- Revolution1120 8mo ago
  Mathematics does not actually exist; it is merely a simplification of geometry. Without geometry, mathematics would not exist.
bediger4000 8mo ago
You left out paying ransom, buying illegal guns and drugs, evading taxes, evading sanctions, settling inter-cartel debts, and bribing certain important world leaders
- longitudinal93 8mo ago
  The USD still rules (by several magnitudes) for the use cases you mention.