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It is a shame that jart got control of @OccupyWallSt and occupywallst.com and never gave it up. It seems like her politics and views are very out of line with m

• jart 8mo ago
  I was the one who registered it. Occupy as a movement has always been inclusive of people with different points of view. My job running the website and twitter has always been to give the people a voice. I think that's important, don't you? The only guy with more credibility than me in Occupy is Micah White but he's been growing vegetables in Oregon ever since he visited Davos a few years back. So I'm the best you've got.
  • deleted 8mo ago
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  • knuckleheads 8mo ago
    You in particular are my main criticism of Occupy as a movement. They lacked any sort of structure, shunned it in fact, that would have ripped control of these resources away from you once it became clear that you disagreed politically with the vast majority of the people involved. That you were allowed to keep control of those resources is emblematic of how Occupy could let all that energy dissipate into nothing.
    • jart 8mo ago
      What resources? OccupyWallSt.org only accepted enough donations to keep the 1-800 number and website online. I was smart enough to understand back then that an unemployed 26 year old activist living in a park wasn't qualified to manage the capital that was being offered to us. So what did I do? I gave you about twenty different links for various projects on the donation page to choose from.
      • giraffe_lady 8mo ago
        Well, and now you use it for this so what was all that for?
      • knuckleheads 8mo ago
        Thank you for another example of why Occupy was doomed to fail, I had not considered that you had control over the donation flow. Instead of working together as a group and finding somebody more responsible than yourself to manage the incoming capital, you diverted it away from the movement and dispersed it to the winds. Was that decision made collectively by the group? Or did you take it upon yourself to do so? Control over the domains and twitter account, along with the incoming flow of donations are the resources that you had and Occupy let you squander.
        • deleted 8mo ago
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        • jart 8mo ago
          Every group that showed up in the park and was working on a project, they could come to me and ask that their donation link be posted on the OccupyWallSt.org donate page. I'm a tech person. I registered a domain. I play it neutral. I included everything from basket weaving to aspiring governments. One of these groups called itself NYCGA or the NYC General Assembly. They were the political organization that claimed dominion over Occupy Wall Street and the public elected to give them the lion's share of donations. The guy who ended up with most of their money, if memory serves me right, is a tattoo artist named Pete Dutro. So these days I'm a lot more opinionated. The Pete Dutros of the financial community took out trillions of dollars of loans from Japan and the economy is crashing right now because of them. We should be focusing on reallocating that capital.
          • knuckleheads 8mo ago
            What a fall from grace, trying to fashion buying calls on FXY as a revolution! Put this on your own personal website and redirect that page, let the domain maintain some dignity.
    • bombcar 8mo ago
      Co-opting potentially effective political movements is how the people in control stay in control. Once you start noticing it, you see it time and time again.
    • thomassmith65 8mo ago
      The 'Occupy' energy didn't dissipate into nothing. It fueled extremism and populism, both on the left and on the right.
      • jancsika 8mo ago
        > It fueled extremism and populism, both on the left and on the right. I think you're confusing the Occupy Movement with the housing crisis itself. Any anti-establishment/libertarian right-wingers would have already gotten energized years before by the Tea Party movement. Even Ron Paul's million dollar "money bomb" in donations happened a few months before Occupy. And what's the path from Occupy to right-wing extremism? Even on Fox News Occupy was a short-term blip. The "one percent" slogan made its way directly into Bernie's campaign, so that tracks with what I assume you're calling left-wing populism. But what do you mean by "extremism" here? If it's violent extremism I don't see the connection. And if it's left-wing anarchist movements, have those grown in any significant way since the 2010s?
        • thomassmith65 8mo ago
          I understand my comment might give one the impression that I am confusing the chicken (the financial crisis) and the egg (the Occupy movement). Since Occupy could not have existed without the Crisis, certainly some blame goes to the Crisis. That said, Occupy shaped perception of the Crisis. Occupy trained the public to view the Crisis in terms of bad people, instead of systemic problems like incentives. The Occupy movement, with its permanent smoke-pit adolescents like Tim Pool, Matt Taibbi, Max Keiser, and so on, has influenced public discourse ever since. I cannot prove that Occupy, rather than the Financial Crisis alone, made possible our current dysfunctional politics (with its focus on scapegoating, conspiracy theories, magical thinking), but I notice echos of its 'memes' (in the original sense of the word), and its attitudes - not to mention I notice some of the actual participants.
          • thomassmith65 8mo ago
            I wish I could edit this, because now that I reread it, 'chicken and egg' doesn't make sense. It's more a question of root cause. So a better metaphor might be whether to assign blame to a misbehaving child or to the abusive father who raised him.
  • detourdog 8mo ago
    I think whoever registered the domain deserves the domain. I would dislike anyone grabbing my domain because it was perceived as miss used. Secondly a domain and a political movement are 2 different things. Either one can exist without the other. The domain is not even a .org which would be befit a movement ownership
  • closewith 8mo ago
    Seems like you're just giving yourself a voice? Why not do that on a personally branded domain?
  • Edman274 8mo ago
    > My job running the website and twitter has always been to give the people a voice. I think that's important, don't you? Do you truly believe in your heart of hearts that people posting neo-MOASS wish fulfillment suffer from a lack of a voice, and no place for them to be heard? Take this seriously. More important than "a voice" is consistency and clarity of communication. The people involved in occupy wall street in 2011 weren't occupying it because they wanted to eventually join it, and I don't think that their form of economic justice would be for Wall Street to lose money in a gigantic market crash that again would result in taxpayer-funded bailouts that spurred the first protests. For transparency's sake, what are your market positions today?
    • jart 8mo ago
      I'm hanging out in a bunker in Omaha rooting for the Japanese people, who've gone through great hardship for several decades to checkmate Wall Street. They're the true Occupy Wall Street and all I'm doing is recognizing their achievement.
      • LargoLasskhyfv 8mo ago
        Is the aircon any good?
  • legitster 8mo ago
    > The only guy with more credibility than me in Occupy is Micah White but he's been growing vegetables in Oregon ever since he visited Davos a few years back. So I'm the best you've got. As an outsider to all this, it's funny how these movements always crumble as soon as there is any mainstream recognition. You have X complaint against an institution. Let's say the institution accepts and reforms somewhat. It's pretty rare that the complainant will pat themselves on the back and say job well done. It's ultimately a game of diminishing returns. If you have a hammer, it's not just that everything is a nail - you must find enough nails to justify continuing to use the hammer.
    • jancsika 8mo ago
      > As an outsider to all this, it's funny how these movements always crumble as soon as there is any mainstream recognition. It crumbled when the physical encampments were forcibly removed by the police. I mean, even at the tiny encampment of UC Davis-- essentially a few camping tents-- the students got pepper sprayed and hauled off. Remember that meme? Many of those same students also faced serious jail time for a protest outside Washington Mutual Bank. It's probably difficult to sustain a movement under those conditions, no? In any case, the message that resonated across the U.S. encampments is essentially what turned into Bernie Sanders two runs for president. That, the group behind AOC's House run, and many other important grassroots movements are the legacy of OWS. Whatever the deal is with jart's website is orthogonal to all this-- I've literally never heard about her association with OWS outside of HN. Edit: clarification
  • popalchemist 8mo ago
    Substantively reply to the critique.
  • lkey 8mo ago
    > [nobody left] with more credibility than me Source: trust me bro Justine, do you think that readers here don't have eyes? The page linked is a call to financial action that, if the advice is followed, will result in yet another unsophisticated ETF pump and dump at best and a call to financial suicide at worst. You are personally underwriting propaganda for something you are very likely invested in, targeting the most credulous. For it to appear on a site called 'Occupy Wall Street' is deliciously ironic. Here's my disclosure: I am completely divested for both the US and Japanese market, except for transient USD cash holdings. I don't have a horse in this race. Will you follow suit? I know very little of what happened in NYC years ago, but I would tell anyone reading the site now that it is run by actively malevolent speculators. I do, however, know a few of your associates. Stop hanging out with grungy, unwashed sex pests, they aren't as smart as they pretend to be, and you should know that by now. It's unbecoming and frankly sad. You have the means to start life anew elsewhere, and you should take that opportunity now.
    • alsetmusic 8mo ago
      > Stop hanging out with grungy, unwashed sex pests And that's where you lost credibility with me. I haven't the knowledge of these topics to express an intelligent opinion and I was considering your arguments, but then you went and lowered the bar. There's no need to level rude insults. I'm a Leftist, fwiw. While I don't know enough to speak intelligently on this, I do resent the people at the top who plunder society for their own gains so I'm spiritually supportive of anyone who's against them.
      • lkey 8mo ago
        My comment had an audience of one, Justine. It's also why I addressed her directly by name. I would really like her to leave the cult she's in, but I refuse to mince words about the nature of that group. She knows who the r*pists in that community are. I lost a friend to those people and I hold a grudge. None of this is a secret and I could give a shit if me bringing it up isn't 'credible' to you. Other than the short 'don't take financial advice from internet strangers' PSA, this isn't about you. Why don't you look inside yourself and try to figure out why you don't find it 'credible' that there might unchecked sexual violence in a insular community of wealthy, mostly male, SV crypto fascists (who are on record warmly discussing feudalism and the return of chattel slavery to the US). 81% of women in the US have been sexually harassed, myself included. Only 2% of reports are false. Your default assumptions are fucked. If you are thinking 'well.. none of the women I know have been...' You are wrong, they just don't feel safe enough around you to talk about it, and for good reason. People who invite themselves into conversations solely to tone police and cast doubt on allegations of sexual violence are the furthest thing from an ally. Spiritually support me by learning how to not be that person around the women in your life.
• shadowgovt 8mo ago
  jart... Oh, Justine Tunney. Is she still a techno-fascist or did that change at some point?
  • johnvanommen 8mo ago
    They’re in the thread, ask them
  • jstanley 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    • shadowgovt 8mo ago
      I know what you're referring to, but this one is well-documented. When Tunney and I were last in overlapping circles, she self-described as techno-fascist. It's pretty well-documented (though I apologize for assuming it was common knowledge; since I was there and knew of her to only one or two degrees of separation, it's easy for me to forget she's not necessarily a well-known name). https://www.salon.com/2017/08/19/who-gets-fired-for-being-a-nazi-depends-on-how-expendable-you-are/ https://www.salon.com/2017/08/19/who-gets-fired-for-being-a-... Zhang, Zhexi. 2019. "The Aesthetics of Decentralization." p.68 https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/08/libertarians-sometimes-become-fascists-heres-why/ https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/08/libertarians-sometime... ... also, my intent was not to cast aspersions. When last I heard the name, I had a particular political leaning associated to the name and I was wondering if it had changed.
  • lbrito 8mo ago
    As in Curtis Yarvin, Dark Enlightenment techno fascist? Really?
    • shadowgovt 8mo ago
      Specifically. https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/123614 https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/123614 - reference page 68. "Questioned on Twitter about her beliefs, she replied: "Read Mencius Moldbug."" (Original source of that information, as cited by above paper, is https://thebaffler.com/latest/mouthbreathing-machiavellis https://thebaffler.com/latest/mouthbreathing-machiavellis ; I don't have a Twitter archive at my fingertips so I cannot pull up the primary source.)
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• znpy 8mo ago
  Quoting from https://web.archive.org/web/20111021162924/http://www.occupywallst.org/ https://web.archive.org/web/20111021162924/http://www.occupy... > This #ows movement empowers real people to create real change from the bottom up. We want to see a general assembly in every backyard, on every street corner because we don't need Wall Street and we don't need politicians to build a better society. Maybe at some point those people will understand that high-school approach doesn't work in the real world. Look at the amount of change they brought, look at the amount of change that a single person like Donald Trump has brought (for better or worse, this is not an endorsement).
• riddlemethat 8mo ago
  Anyone attempting to build a movement might find it interesting how Pumping Station One in Chicago is governed. It's a maker space but run by people who care (at least from my experience when I was a member back in 2015/2016). The process for electing leadership and holding members accountable was very democratic and fair, from my experience. They open-source as much as they can about how they organize: https://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/wiki/Do-ocracy https://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/wiki/Do-ocracy https://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/wiki/Member_Manual https://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/wiki/Member_Manual https://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/wiki/Administration https://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/wiki/Administration