4 ms·

I would argue that the success has more to do with DevDiv being the strongest technical organization at MS than its provenance.

by brg 8mo ago

pjmlp 8mo ago
Until they messed up the whole UWP / WinRT developer experience in Visual Studio. Also VS 2026 was released with a hard milestone, thus while there is a new settings experience, many options show a dialog from VS 2022, because the new UI is still not implemented for the new experience. Note that most organisations have to pay for Visual Studio licenses, and get rewarded with such quality. Slop has also arrived into DevDiv.
- PaulHoule 8mo ago
  I think after the failure of Metro, I think Microsoft gave up on native apps entirely and now the story is web or Electron.
  - pjmlp 8mo ago
    It appears the problem is more deep than that. From what I could infer from some community talks, podcasts and so, I would assert that nowadays they have the problem new hires have been educated in UNIX like OSes and Web. Thus Windows team gets lots of folks that never coded anything for Windows, and management instead of having proper trainings in place, just goes with Webview2 and Electron all over the place. I might be wrong, this is more my perception than anything else.
    - h3lp 8mo ago
      > nowadays they have the problem new hires have been educated in UNIX like OSes and Web. So, in other words, the kids grow up learning and using Linux, right?
      - direwolf20 8mo ago
        Developers, at least. And Macs.
      - pjmlp 8mo ago
        More like macOS and Chromebooks, developing mobile apps and Web.
    - MisterTea 8mo ago
      I would say the web took over as the primary application platform and Unix-likes provided convenient low cost license-free foundations to build them on.
      - pjmlp 8mo ago
        No excuse for not having trainings in place for Windows native development, for those new hires. You don't see Apple and Google doing the same Webviews all over the place on their OSes, with exception of ChromeOS, which appears to be on the death row to be replaced with Android anyway. In fact, at WWDC 2025 Apple executives even spoke publicly on the matter against that approach.
direwolf20 8mo ago
I STILL REMEMBER WHEN SOME MARKETING IDIOT DECIDED THAT VISUAL STUDIO NEEDED TO SHOUT AT YOU. IT TOOK THREE MAJOR VERISONS BEFORE VISUAL STUDIO STOPPED LOOKING LIKE THIS COMMENT. OF COURSE THERE WASN'T A SETTING TO MAKE IT NORMAL AGAIN.
- mpawelski 8mo ago
  Damn, I got frustrated just by reading this comment :D

I would argue that the success has more to do with DevDiv being the strongest technical organization at MS than its provenance.

by brg 8mo ago

I would argue that the success has more to do with DevDiv being the strongest technical organization at MS than its provenance.

pjmlp 8mo ago

Until they messed up the whole UWP / WinRT developer experience in Visual Studio. Also VS 2026 was released with a hard milestone, thus while there is a new settings experience, many options show a dialog from VS 2022, because the new UI is still not implemented for the new experience. Note that most organisations have to pay for Visual Studio licenses, and get rewarded with such quality. Slop has also arrived into DevDiv.

PaulHoule 8mo ago
I think after the failure of Metro, I think Microsoft gave up on native apps entirely and now the story is web or Electron.
- pjmlp 8mo ago
  It appears the problem is more deep than that. From what I could infer from some community talks, podcasts and so, I would assert that nowadays they have the problem new hires have been educated in UNIX like OSes and Web. Thus Windows team gets lots of folks that never coded anything for Windows, and management instead of having proper trainings in place, just goes with Webview2 and Electron all over the place. I might be wrong, this is more my perception than anything else.
  - h3lp 8mo ago
    > nowadays they have the problem new hires have been educated in UNIX like OSes and Web. So, in other words, the kids grow up learning and using Linux, right?
    - direwolf20 8mo ago
      Developers, at least. And Macs.
    - pjmlp 8mo ago
      More like macOS and Chromebooks, developing mobile apps and Web.
  - MisterTea 8mo ago
    I would say the web took over as the primary application platform and Unix-likes provided convenient low cost license-free foundations to build them on.
    - pjmlp 8mo ago
      No excuse for not having trainings in place for Windows native development, for those new hires. You don't see Apple and Google doing the same Webviews all over the place on their OSes, with exception of ChromeOS, which appears to be on the death row to be replaced with Android anyway. In fact, at WWDC 2025 Apple executives even spoke publicly on the matter against that approach.

direwolf20 8mo ago

I STILL REMEMBER WHEN SOME MARKETING IDIOT DECIDED THAT VISUAL STUDIO NEEDED TO SHOUT AT YOU. IT TOOK THREE MAJOR VERISONS BEFORE VISUAL STUDIO STOPPED LOOKING LIKE THIS COMMENT. OF COURSE THERE WASN'T A SETTING TO MAKE IT NORMAL AGAIN.

mpawelski 8mo ago
Damn, I got frustrated just by reading this comment :D