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EURion marks are a feature you must include on your banknote for it to even be considered real. And it's _one_ feature. It's relatively trivial to make a chip w

by Arch-TK 8mo ago

EURion marks are a feature you must include on your banknote for it to even be considered real. And it's _one_ feature. It's relatively trivial to make a chip which can detect their presence. On the other hand, if I need a replacement part for something, it's unlikely I will find the manufacturer giving me models for it. And if a manufacturer is giving me models for it, they probably do so with the explicit expectation that I might end up using them to manufacture a replacement. In most cases either me or some other volunteer will need to measure the existing part, write down all the critical measurements, and then design a new part from scratch in CAD. Even if somehow you are able to fingerprint on those critical measurements, that's just _one_ part. The only way this kind of nonsense law could work is if you mandate that 3D printers must not accept commands from an untrusted source (signature verification) and then you must have software which uses a database to check for such critical measurements, ideally _before_ slicing. Except that still doesn't work because I can always post-process a part to fit. And it doesn't work even more because the software will need to contain a signing key. Unless the signing key is on a remote server somewhere to which you must send your model for validation. This is never going to work, or scale. There are even more hurdles... I can design and build a 3D printer from scratch and manufacture it using non-CNC machined parts at home. A working, high quality 3D printer. Where are you going to force me to put the locks? Are you going to require me to show my ID when buying stepper motors and stepper motor drivers? What about other kinds of manufacturing (that these laws, at least the Washington State ones, also cover)? Will you ban old hardware? What about a milling machine? Are you going to ban non-CNC mills? These are the most ignorant laws made by the most ignorant people. The easiest way to ban people from manufacturing their own guns is to ban manufacture of your own guns. But again, this is a complete non-issue in the US where you can probably get a gun illegally more easily than you can 3D print something half as reliable.

anthk 8mo ago
As an European I'd say any USAnite can almost get a gun with breakfast cereal boxes. But weapons' culture in the US it's obsolete. Militias can't do shit against tyranical govs because once they send drones it's game over.
- joe_mamba 8mo ago
  > But weapons' culture in the US it's obsolete. Militias can't do shit against tyranical govs because once they send drones it's game over. Pretty sure those 50 thousand or so civilians killed on the street in the recent Iranian protests/riots would have been a lot less, if all those Iranians had easy access to guns, and not just the government. Drones are not enough, you still need boots on the ground for you to claim control over a territory, and boots on the ground think twice about signing up for service if that includes facing armed mobs with guns on a daily basis. So no, mobs with guns are not obsolete.
  - anthk 8mo ago
    Mob with guns would be useless against the Iranian Guards which are pretty much elite commandos.
    - joe_mamba 8mo ago
      What's the commando to civilian ratio in Iran?
      - mschuster91 8mo ago
        Let's do some napkin math: Iran has about 94 million people. Iran's IRGC alone has a personnel count of 125.000 [1], of which about 2-5000 are estimated to be the elite of the elite ("Quds Force"). Together with the Basij (anywhere from 100-600k) that alone is a sufficient amount of force. And on top of that come maybe 400-500k of the regular Iranian Armed Forces [2], as well as about 260k active police+100k police reservists. So, if one sees the whole of IRGC plus Basij as the "commandos", they alone form an active elite of about 0.5%, if one sees the entirety of the military+police we're looking at easily 2-3 million units, so up to 2%. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Revolutionary_Guard_Corps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Revolutionary_Guard_Co... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Republic_of_Iran_Armed_Forces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Republic_of_Iran_Armed...
    - rayiner 8mo ago
NoGravitas 8mo ago
> This is never going to work, or scale Neither does DRM, really, but it certainly causes a great deal of inconvenience, and is upheld by the legal system.
- Arch-TK 8mo ago
  But that's the point. DRM works at all (in terms of causing inconvenience, not preventing copying, for that it will never work of course) because the people producing the data have an interest in applying the DRM. But the people producing 3D printable gun parts are _not_ interested in applying the DRM. If you want to draw an analogy to media, this is more like if the government mandated porn detection software on your computer which would prevent porn from being able to be displayed on your screen. Or mandating HDCP between your monitor and your computer so that your computer could implement restrictions on what you could view on the monitor. Except that computers are extremely difficult to DIY from basic components (I mean raw chips and metal). Meanwhile I can literally buy aluminium extrusions, or even bits of wood, some stepper motors, some gears, some belts, some pulleys and some stepper drivers, an STM32 devboard and get PCBWay to make me a simple PCB, or just use a prototyping board. And at the end of it, I would have a high quality (maybe a bit slow) 3D printer. I can tell you with absolute certainty that it could print gun parts because I have personally taken a trash-tier prusa i3 mk2 clone and turned it into a machine which could probably rival the mk3 at least. How exactly are they planning on stopping me from designing a part, slicing it, and then putting it on a DIY 3D printer? They could maybe achieve this by restricting the sale of certain components such as hot-ends, extruder gears (although you can get away with generic gears), or stepper motors and stepper motor drivers. I just don't see it happening. Maybe they could ban open source slicers and CAD programs? But I guess I better start stocking up on high quality stepper motors and stepper motor drivers and buy a milling machine and a lathe so I can manufacture the other parts myself. You never know when the UK government will steal another wonderful authoritarian idea from another country.

by Arch-TK 8mo ago

anthk 8mo ago

As an European I'd say any USAnite can almost get a gun with breakfast cereal boxes. But weapons' culture in the US it's obsolete. Militias can't do shit against tyranical govs because once they send drones it's game over.

joe_mamba 8mo ago
> But weapons' culture in the US it's obsolete. Militias can't do shit against tyranical govs because once they send drones it's game over. Pretty sure those 50 thousand or so civilians killed on the street in the recent Iranian protests/riots would have been a lot less, if all those Iranians had easy access to guns, and not just the government. Drones are not enough, you still need boots on the ground for you to claim control over a territory, and boots on the ground think twice about signing up for service if that includes facing armed mobs with guns on a daily basis. So no, mobs with guns are not obsolete.
- anthk 8mo ago
  Mob with guns would be useless against the Iranian Guards which are pretty much elite commandos.
  - joe_mamba 8mo ago
    What's the commando to civilian ratio in Iran?
    - mschuster91 8mo ago
      Let's do some napkin math: Iran has about 94 million people. Iran's IRGC alone has a personnel count of 125.000 [1], of which about 2-5000 are estimated to be the elite of the elite ("Quds Force"). Together with the Basij (anywhere from 100-600k) that alone is a sufficient amount of force. And on top of that come maybe 400-500k of the regular Iranian Armed Forces [2], as well as about 260k active police+100k police reservists. So, if one sees the whole of IRGC plus Basij as the "commandos", they alone form an active elite of about 0.5%, if one sees the entirety of the military+police we're looking at easily 2-3 million units, so up to 2%. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Revolutionary_Guard_Corps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Revolutionary_Guard_Co... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Republic_of_Iran_Armed_Forces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Republic_of_Iran_Armed...
  - rayiner 8mo ago

NoGravitas 8mo ago

> This is never going to work, or scale Neither does DRM, really, but it certainly causes a great deal of inconvenience, and is upheld by the legal system.

Arch-TK 8mo ago
But that's the point. DRM works at all (in terms of causing inconvenience, not preventing copying, for that it will never work of course) because the people producing the data have an interest in applying the DRM. But the people producing 3D printable gun parts are _not_ interested in applying the DRM. If you want to draw an analogy to media, this is more like if the government mandated porn detection software on your computer which would prevent porn from being able to be displayed on your screen. Or mandating HDCP between your monitor and your computer so that your computer could implement restrictions on what you could view on the monitor. Except that computers are extremely difficult to DIY from basic components (I mean raw chips and metal). Meanwhile I can literally buy aluminium extrusions, or even bits of wood, some stepper motors, some gears, some belts, some pulleys and some stepper drivers, an STM32 devboard and get PCBWay to make me a simple PCB, or just use a prototyping board. And at the end of it, I would have a high quality (maybe a bit slow) 3D printer. I can tell you with absolute certainty that it could print gun parts because I have personally taken a trash-tier prusa i3 mk2 clone and turned it into a machine which could probably rival the mk3 at least. How exactly are they planning on stopping me from designing a part, slicing it, and then putting it on a DIY 3D printer? They could maybe achieve this by restricting the sale of certain components such as hot-ends, extruder gears (although you can get away with generic gears), or stepper motors and stepper motor drivers. I just don't see it happening. Maybe they could ban open source slicers and CAD programs? But I guess I better start stocking up on high quality stepper motors and stepper motor drivers and buy a milling machine and a lathe so I can manufacture the other parts myself. You never know when the UK government will steal another wonderful authoritarian idea from another country.