4 ms·

Frankly it sounds to me like a "show me the man and I'll show you the crime" kind of operation. France and the UK, and judging by yesterday's speech by the PM o

by muyuu 9mo ago

Frankly it sounds to me like a "show me the man and I'll show you the crime" kind of operation. France and the UK, and judging by yesterday's speech by the PM of Spain maybe the whole EU might be looking to do what China and Russia did earlier on and start cracking down on foreign social media by making it impossible to operate without total alignment with their vision and not just their (new) rules. Together with a push for local alternatives, that currently don't seem to be there, it may spell the end for a big chunk of the Global social network landscape. I still believe that the EU and aligned countries would rather have America to agree to much tighter speech controls, digital ID, ToS-based speech codes as apparently US Democrats partly or totally agree to. But if they have workable alternatives they will deal with them from a different position.

Palmik 9mo ago
> EU might be looking to do what China and Russia did earlier on and start cracking down on foreign social media For some reason you forgot to mention "Like the US did with TikTok".
- muyuu 9mo ago
  that was decades later, but yea I don't think for a second that was justifiable - not even considering that China had completely closed shop for America decades earlier and this was a 1-way openness relationship for a long time; they could have sold this as a reciprocity issue but they didn't esp. when America already controls the main outlets through Android Play Store and Apple Store, and yep, they have proven to control them not just happen to host them as a country arguably America did have valid security concerns with Huawei though, but if those are the rules then you cannot complain later on
- junto 9mo ago
  The old “Rules for thee but not for me”.
- pjc50 9mo ago
  Even earlier: PokerStars.
PaulRobinson 9mo ago
It's worth pointing out that in France and the UK, the authorities involved are arms length independent of the political bodies - it's not like the US where if you give the President good vibes you can become head of the FBI, and all you have to do in return is whatever he says. There are statutory instruments (in France, constitutional clauses), that determine the independence of these authorities. They are tasked - and held to account by respective legislative bodies - with implementing the law as written. Nobody wrote a law saying "Go after Grok". There is however a law in most countries about the creation and dissemination of CSAM material and non-consensual pornography. Some of that law is relatively new (the UK only introduced some of these laws in recent years), but they all predate the current wave of AI investment. Founders, boards of directors and their internal and external advisors could: 1. Read the law and make sure any tools they build comply 2. When told their tools don't comply take immediate and decisive action to change the tools 3. Work with law enforcement to apply the law as written Those companies, if they find this too burdensome, have the choice of not operating in that market. By operating in that market, they both implicitly agree to the law, and are required to explicitly abide by it. They can't then complain that the law is unfair (it's not), that it's being politicised (How? By whom? Show your working), and that this is all impossible in their home market where they are literally offering presents to the personal enrichment of the President on bended knee while he demands that ownership structures of foreign social media companies like TikTok are changed to meet the agenda of himself and his administration. So, would the EU like more tighter speech controls? Yes, they'd like implementation of the controls on free speech enshrined in legislation created by democratically appointed representatives. The alternative - algorithms that create abusive content, of women and children in particular - are not wanted by the people of the UK, the EU, or most of the rest of the World, laws are written to that effect, and are then enforced by the authorities tasked with that enforcement. This isn't "anti-democratic", it's literally democracy in action standing up to technocratic feudalism that is an Ayn Randian-wet dream being played out by some morons who got lucky.
- didntcheck 9mo ago
  > It's worth pointing out that in France and the UK, the authorities involved are arms length independent of the political bodies As someone who has lived in (and followed current affairs) in both of these countries, this is a very idealistic and naïve view. There can be a big gap between theory and practice > There are statutory instruments (in France, constitutional clauses), that determine the independence of these authorities. > They are tasked - and held to account by respective legislative bodies - It's worth nothing here that the UK doesn't have separation of powers or a supreme court (in the US sense)
yxhuvud 9mo ago
Yes, if you don't follow EU laws prepare to not do business in Europe. Likewise, if you don't follow US laws I'd advise against trying to do business in USA.
- whatis991 9mo ago
  If X/Twitter was to be banned in the EU, and some of its citizens still wanted to access X/Twitter, let us say for the sake of getting alternative points of view on politics and news, would it be a good or a bad thing if accessing X/Twitter by IP was stopped? As in, a citizen of an EU country types x.com/CNN, because he or she wants to know the other side of some political issue between the EU and the USA, and he or she feels that the news in the EU might be biased or have misunderstood something. Would it be good or bad if the user was met with a "This website is by law not available within the EU"?
  - muyuu 9mo ago
    there's a push to end with VPNs in the UK and in the EU because it's clear that this is a very plausible endgame currently VPNs are too easy to use for the leadership of autocracies like the EU or the UK to be comfortable with them, so at the very least they will require for backdoors to see which citizens are watching what, and have them visited by fellows in hi-vis jackets
    - GJim 9mo ago
      > there's a push to end with VPNs in the UK and in the EU No there isn't. Governments discussing such things doesn't _remotely_ mean there is a political will for them, or that they will be voted into law. Governments are expected to research and discuss paths of legislation (and in this case, come to the conclusion banning VPNs is both harmful and ridiculous). This is how our democracies work! Reporting government discussions as approved legislation is, at best ignorant, at worst trolling.
  - yxhuvud 9mo ago
    Generally speaking I wouldn't support blocking their IP, but rather I'd block the ability of European companies to pay for ads on X unless they fixed their shit and paid any damages. That might of course lead X to block Europe visitors in turn but that is a different discussion. Or in other words: I would block the do business-part, not the access part.

by muyuu 9mo ago

Palmik 9mo ago

> EU might be looking to do what China and Russia did earlier on and start cracking down on foreign social media For some reason you forgot to mention "Like the US did with TikTok".

muyuu 9mo ago
that was decades later, but yea I don't think for a second that was justifiable - not even considering that China had completely closed shop for America decades earlier and this was a 1-way openness relationship for a long time; they could have sold this as a reciprocity issue but they didn't esp. when America already controls the main outlets through Android Play Store and Apple Store, and yep, they have proven to control them not just happen to host them as a country arguably America did have valid security concerns with Huawei though, but if those are the rules then you cannot complain later on
junto 9mo ago
The old “Rules for thee but not for me”.
pjc50 9mo ago
Even earlier: PokerStars.

PaulRobinson 9mo ago

It's worth pointing out that in France and the UK, the authorities involved are arms length independent of the political bodies - it's not like the US where if you give the President good vibes you can become head of the FBI, and all you have to do in return is whatever he says. There are statutory instruments (in France, constitutional clauses), that determine the independence of these authorities. They are tasked - and held to account by respective legislative bodies - with implementing the law as written. Nobody wrote a law saying "Go after Grok". There is however a law in most countries about the creation and dissemination of CSAM material and non-consensual pornography. Some of that law is relatively new (the UK only introduced some of these laws in recent years), but they all predate the current wave of AI investment. Founders, boards of directors and their internal and external advisors could: 1. Read the law and make sure any tools they build comply 2. When told their tools don't comply take immediate and decisive action to change the tools 3. Work with law enforcement to apply the law as written Those companies, if they find this too burdensome, have the choice of not operating in that market. By operating in that market, they both implicitly agree to the law, and are required to explicitly abide by it. They can't then complain that the law is unfair (it's not), that it's being politicised (How? By whom? Show your working), and that this is all impossible in their home market where they are literally offering presents to the personal enrichment of the President on bended knee while he demands that ownership structures of foreign social media companies like TikTok are changed to meet the agenda of himself and his administration. So, would the EU like more tighter speech controls? Yes, they'd like implementation of the controls on free speech enshrined in legislation created by democratically appointed representatives. The alternative - algorithms that create abusive content, of women and children in particular - are not wanted by the people of the UK, the EU, or most of the rest of the World, laws are written to that effect, and are then enforced by the authorities tasked with that enforcement. This isn't "anti-democratic", it's literally democracy in action standing up to technocratic feudalism that is an Ayn Randian-wet dream being played out by some morons who got lucky.

didntcheck 9mo ago
> It's worth pointing out that in France and the UK, the authorities involved are arms length independent of the political bodies As someone who has lived in (and followed current affairs) in both of these countries, this is a very idealistic and naïve view. There can be a big gap between theory and practice > There are statutory instruments (in France, constitutional clauses), that determine the independence of these authorities. > They are tasked - and held to account by respective legislative bodies - It's worth nothing here that the UK doesn't have separation of powers or a supreme court (in the US sense)

yxhuvud 9mo ago

Yes, if you don't follow EU laws prepare to not do business in Europe. Likewise, if you don't follow US laws I'd advise against trying to do business in USA.

whatis991 9mo ago
If X/Twitter was to be banned in the EU, and some of its citizens still wanted to access X/Twitter, let us say for the sake of getting alternative points of view on politics and news, would it be a good or a bad thing if accessing X/Twitter by IP was stopped? As in, a citizen of an EU country types x.com/CNN, because he or she wants to know the other side of some political issue between the EU and the USA, and he or she feels that the news in the EU might be biased or have misunderstood something. Would it be good or bad if the user was met with a "This website is by law not available within the EU"?
- muyuu 9mo ago
  there's a push to end with VPNs in the UK and in the EU because it's clear that this is a very plausible endgame currently VPNs are too easy to use for the leadership of autocracies like the EU or the UK to be comfortable with them, so at the very least they will require for backdoors to see which citizens are watching what, and have them visited by fellows in hi-vis jackets
  - GJim 9mo ago
    > there's a push to end with VPNs in the UK and in the EU No there isn't. Governments discussing such things doesn't _remotely_ mean there is a political will for them, or that they will be voted into law. Governments are expected to research and discuss paths of legislation (and in this case, come to the conclusion banning VPNs is both harmful and ridiculous). This is how our democracies work! Reporting government discussions as approved legislation is, at best ignorant, at worst trolling.
- yxhuvud 9mo ago
  Generally speaking I wouldn't support blocking their IP, but rather I'd block the ability of European companies to pay for ads on X unless they fixed their shit and paid any damages. That might of course lead X to block Europe visitors in turn but that is a different discussion. Or in other words: I would block the do business-part, not the access part.