5 ms·

All you lawyers: Is removing / tampering with Kindle DRM legal in this case? Considering we bought the material?

bduerst 14y ago
It all comes down to the end user agreement you agree to when purchasing the ebook. Content providers are within their right to define how they want their copyrighted works to be used - though a judge could potentially throw out the end user agreement in court. So, if Amazon stipulates that you should not tamper with or remove the DRM from the ebook, it's a violation of your purchase agreement if you do. Basically, you agree to not remove the DRM when you pay them for their content. The only legal alternative is to not buy from them.
- shmerl 14y ago
  EULAs can't override laws. Even if you break the EULA for legitimate purpose - you aren't necessarily breaking any laws.
  - bduerst 14y ago
    Nobody said anything about breaking laws. EULAs are technically legally binding contracts, and breaking them leaves you liable in civil court.
    - shmerl 14y ago
      Point is, EULA can't even restrict you for civil cases if it contradicts your rights. But that can vary from country to country.
      - bduerst 14y ago
        And also state to state, which is why I said pending a Judge doesn't throw it out.
    - prof_hobart 14y ago
      In the UK at least, there are a variety of reasons why a contract, or at least part of it, may be unenforceable - such as unfair/unreasonable terms, things that contradict the law, or the particular terms were considered "hidden" (e.g. too small a font size, or an important clause is buried in page 27 of an unrelated section).
    - krzyk 14y ago
      I'm not a lawyer (so correct me if I'm wrong) but here in Poland there is a law that allows you to reverse engineer a product that you bought to make it work on your hardware (e.g. you bought a windows only program but want to make it work under Linux) So I I buy a book that can't be viewed on device of my choosing (e.g. because of DRM) then I'm free to do whatever I want to the product to make it work on my hardware. No EULA can be above the state law.
shmerl 14y ago
It should be legal per fair use. But this is gray area. Logic wise - it should be 100% legal. But laws are often broken and stuff like DMCA is really messy.
rammark 14y ago
I am not a lawyer, but I do know a little bit about DRM. I believe the DMCA makes cracking all forms of DRM illegal except in certain cases which are outlined by the Library of Congress every three years. The last time the exceptions were updated was July 2010 [1], so they will be up for review again in 2013. If I'm interpreting the current guidelines correctly, you can only crack ebook DRM if it is preventing you from using text-to-speech (presumably for blind people or people with poor eyesight). [1] http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2010/Librarian-of-Congress-1201-Statement.html http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2010/Librarian-of-Congress-120...

It all comes down to the end user agreement you agree to when purchasing the ebook. Content providers are within their right to define how they want their copyrighted works to be used - though a judge could potentially throw out the end user agreement in court. So, if Amazon stipulates that you should not tamper with or remove the DRM from the ebook, it's a violation of your purchase agreement if you do. Basically, you agree to not remove the DRM when you pay them for their content. The only legal alternative is to not buy from them.

shmerl 14y ago
EULAs can't override laws. Even if you break the EULA for legitimate purpose - you aren't necessarily breaking any laws.
- bduerst 14y ago
  Nobody said anything about breaking laws. EULAs are technically legally binding contracts, and breaking them leaves you liable in civil court.
  - shmerl 14y ago
    Point is, EULA can't even restrict you for civil cases if it contradicts your rights. But that can vary from country to country.
    - bduerst 14y ago
      And also state to state, which is why I said pending a Judge doesn't throw it out.
  - prof_hobart 14y ago
    In the UK at least, there are a variety of reasons why a contract, or at least part of it, may be unenforceable - such as unfair/unreasonable terms, things that contradict the law, or the particular terms were considered "hidden" (e.g. too small a font size, or an important clause is buried in page 27 of an unrelated section).
  - krzyk 14y ago
    I'm not a lawyer (so correct me if I'm wrong) but here in Poland there is a law that allows you to reverse engineer a product that you bought to make it work on your hardware (e.g. you bought a windows only program but want to make it work under Linux) So I I buy a book that can't be viewed on device of my choosing (e.g. because of DRM) then I'm free to do whatever I want to the product to make it work on my hardware. No EULA can be above the state law.

shmerl 14y ago

It should be legal per fair use. But this is gray area. Logic wise - it should be 100% legal. But laws are often broken and stuff like DMCA is really messy.

rammark 14y ago

I am not a lawyer, but I do know a little bit about DRM. I believe the DMCA makes cracking all forms of DRM illegal except in certain cases which are outlined by the Library of Congress every three years. The last time the exceptions were updated was July 2010 [1], so they will be up for review again in 2013. If I'm interpreting the current guidelines correctly, you can only crack ebook DRM if it is preventing you from using text-to-speech (presumably for blind people or people with poor eyesight). [1] http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2010/Librarian-of-Congress-1201-Statement.html http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2010/Librarian-of-Congress-120...