4 ms·

I think people are maybe missing a key development with stable coins recently. They can be used by AI agents to pay for access to protected API endpoints or web

by arbol 8mo ago

I think people are maybe missing a key development with stable coins recently. They can be used by AI agents to pay for access to protected API endpoints or websites. The http 402 status endpoint is finally being utilised, years after it's creation. Ycombinator has a lot of AI based startups and they are given unlimited tokens. All crypto/browser automation/bot detection companies are jumping on the bandwagon: https://docs.cdp.coinbase.com/x402/core-concepts/http-402 https://docs.cdp.coinbase.com/x402/core-concepts/http-402 https://docs.browserbase.com/integrations/x402/introduction https://docs.browserbase.com/integrations/x402/introduction https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Reference/Status/402 https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Reference/... https://docs.datadome.co/docs/monetize-policy https://docs.datadome.co/docs/monetize-policy In a world without search engines, LLM chat bots will need to be held to account for the server resources they're using. Seems like a lot of companies are betting on them paying for access or acting as AI shopping agents.

deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
utopiah 8mo ago
I fail to see the use case where it's useful. I understand how it works and what it might enable but typically I want to cherry pick my API because I trust the source and their pricing (as here we are covering only paid for services). What situations do you imagine where one : - changes frequently and/or covers a LOT of APIs - requires little to no budget oversight - requires little to no quality oversight ?
- arbol 8mo ago
  Training data for LLMs immediately springs to mind. They've had a free pass so far but there have been numerous threads on HN talking about server costs ramping up. People are creating zip bombs etc. to combat the LLM companies. Artists are not happy about content being ripped off. If you consider that AI agents may end up autonomously designing, building and running SaaS-like products, or API microservices, it makes sense that they should be able to pay systems in stable coin. It allows them to operate without the restrictions put in place by traditional financial institutions. That's my futurist opinion.
- nemild 8mo ago
  (On the small team that helped create x402) To start, it's great for micropayments globally. There are examples where you want an API once and not again, and you don't want to create an account or link a credit card. Cloudflare was one of our earliest partners, and they saw a critical need for it for web scraping by AI.
  - utopiah 8mo ago
    > great for micropayments globally My personal Website supported WebMonetization (details https://webmonetization.org https://webmonetization.org ) for more than 5 years already so no need to convince me about that, I agree. I also believe one could just as easily have a funding.md with an IBAN and structured communication to make the equivalent. Anyway that's beside the point, what I still don't get is a use case without or without AI according to the constraints I listed before.
emsign 8mo ago
So they get unlimited tokens and how is that limiting their access and usage exactly? Who's paying the bills with real money?
- arbol 8mo ago
  The unlimited tokens thing is a sign that YC are expecting all their startups to integrate AI as a core part of their product. It seems like a natural progression for AI to start purchasing things autonomously. My bet is that YC also think this and are building tech that can do this with stable coin - "AI shopping" regimes. YC are presumably paying for the usage with fiat.
codeflo 8mo ago
Why the hell would you need a blockchain for automatic payments? Bots that performed financial transactions existed long before “crypto”.
- direwolf20 8mo ago
  The ordinary financial system is constrained by a lot of regulation and it won't let an AI open an account.
  - BoppreH 8mo ago
    Good, KYC exists for a reason. Why does AI need to open an account, anyway? Just give it a debit card with a limit, not a whole new account and contract with a bank.
    - direwolf20 8mo ago
      The limit of a debit card is the money in your account. The bank would argue that an AI using your account on your behalf is fraud.
      - BoppreH 8mo ago
        Those are much easier problems to solve, and surely already solved by some fintechs, than bringing cryptocurrencies to the minimum legal compliance and meeting performance requirements.
        direwolf20 8mo ago
        They don't intend to meet the legal compliance requirements. That's the reason for using cryptocurrencies — avoiding compliance.
      - Kwpolska 8mo ago
        My debit card has specific limits, far less than all my funds. There also exist pre-paid cards, ideal for things like this.
luke5441 8mo ago
Is there also an endpoint to get invoices for tax and accounting purposes?
- testfrequency 8mo ago
  Sir, this is a Wendy’s
wslh 8mo ago
Automatic payments for AI seems like a completely dangerous wormhole for hacks. In the line of smart contracts security but with the indetermination of AI.

by arbol 8mo ago

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]

utopiah 8mo ago

I fail to see the use case where it's useful. I understand how it works and what it might enable but typically I want to cherry pick my API because I trust the source and their pricing (as here we are covering only paid for services). What situations do you imagine where one : - changes frequently and/or covers a LOT of APIs - requires little to no budget oversight - requires little to no quality oversight ?

arbol 8mo ago
Training data for LLMs immediately springs to mind. They've had a free pass so far but there have been numerous threads on HN talking about server costs ramping up. People are creating zip bombs etc. to combat the LLM companies. Artists are not happy about content being ripped off. If you consider that AI agents may end up autonomously designing, building and running SaaS-like products, or API microservices, it makes sense that they should be able to pay systems in stable coin. It allows them to operate without the restrictions put in place by traditional financial institutions. That's my futurist opinion.
nemild 8mo ago
(On the small team that helped create x402) To start, it's great for micropayments globally. There are examples where you want an API once and not again, and you don't want to create an account or link a credit card. Cloudflare was one of our earliest partners, and they saw a critical need for it for web scraping by AI.
- utopiah 8mo ago
  > great for micropayments globally My personal Website supported WebMonetization (details https://webmonetization.org https://webmonetization.org ) for more than 5 years already so no need to convince me about that, I agree. I also believe one could just as easily have a funding.md with an IBAN and structured communication to make the equivalent. Anyway that's beside the point, what I still don't get is a use case without or without AI according to the constraints I listed before.

emsign 8mo ago

So they get unlimited tokens and how is that limiting their access and usage exactly? Who's paying the bills with real money?

arbol 8mo ago
The unlimited tokens thing is a sign that YC are expecting all their startups to integrate AI as a core part of their product. It seems like a natural progression for AI to start purchasing things autonomously. My bet is that YC also think this and are building tech that can do this with stable coin - "AI shopping" regimes. YC are presumably paying for the usage with fiat.

codeflo 8mo ago

Why the hell would you need a blockchain for automatic payments? Bots that performed financial transactions existed long before “crypto”.

direwolf20 8mo ago
The ordinary financial system is constrained by a lot of regulation and it won't let an AI open an account.
- BoppreH 8mo ago
  Good, KYC exists for a reason. Why does AI need to open an account, anyway? Just give it a debit card with a limit, not a whole new account and contract with a bank.
  - direwolf20 8mo ago
    The limit of a debit card is the money in your account. The bank would argue that an AI using your account on your behalf is fraud.
    - BoppreH 8mo ago
      Those are much easier problems to solve, and surely already solved by some fintechs, than bringing cryptocurrencies to the minimum legal compliance and meeting performance requirements.
      - direwolf20 8mo ago
        They don't intend to meet the legal compliance requirements. That's the reason for using cryptocurrencies — avoiding compliance.
    - Kwpolska 8mo ago
      My debit card has specific limits, far less than all my funds. There also exist pre-paid cards, ideal for things like this.

luke5441 8mo ago

Is there also an endpoint to get invoices for tax and accounting purposes?

testfrequency 8mo ago
Sir, this is a Wendy’s

wslh 8mo ago

Automatic payments for AI seems like a completely dangerous wormhole for hacks. In the line of smart contracts security but with the indetermination of AI.