4 ms·

As an aside, why do DoT pdfs have such gigantic margins/padding around the text content?

ceejayoz 9mo ago
It allows note taking and corrections on drafts. Same deal with things like SCOTUS opinions. (Random example: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/24-624_b07d.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/24-624_b07d.pdf)
- conductr 9mo ago
  Also allows flexibility in terms of binding options
- lostlogin 9mo ago
  I’d have thought the 20+ pages before getting to the point would have allowed scrap paper for notes. Maybe the foreword, acknowledgements, preface and various notes contained something of value.
  - ceejayoz 9mo ago
    When you're driving a small car, do you expect the lanes to automatically shrink for you? It's a standard so no one has to think "does this page have enough space", and the notes are often relevant to the current page. Stuff like the photo in https://www.thedailybeast.com/photo-details-obamas-speech-edits/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/photo-details-obamas-speech-ed...
    - lostlogin 9mo ago
      I was referring to the notes, notices and various preambles occupying the first quarter of the document.
      - ceejayoz 9mo ago
        Which are a very different sort of notes than the ones I'm talking about. They print it out and people go over it with a pen, make corrections, comments, etc.
        dylan604 9mo ago
        To me, I read it as they are stating those pages are really useless fluff that could essentially just be ripped out and used as scratch paper as they seemingly serve no other purpose.
        lostlogin 9mo ago
        Yes, this. But as ceejayoz points out, taking notes on the actual page is better. I was having a dig at how long it took for the document to get to the point.
- gucci-on-fleek 9mo ago
  > Same deal with things like SCOTUS opinions. (Random example: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/24-624_b07d.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/24-624_b07d.pdf) I don't think that that's quite right. SCOTUS opinions do indeed use a narrow text size (4 1/8" by 7 1/8" [0]), but that's because they're designed to be printed on unusually narrow paper (6 1/8" by 9 1/4" [0]), not to leave room for taking notes. This paper size actually only leaves 1" margins on either side, which leaves less room for taking notes than most other documents. [0]: https://www.supremecourt.gov/filingandrules/2023RulesoftheCourt.pdf#page=47 https://www.supremecourt.gov/filingandrules/2023RulesoftheCo...
  - ceejayoz 9mo ago
    When the SCOTUS justices and staffers are marking up drafts, they’re likely using regular old letter sized paper. That they can lop those margins off in the final printing that goes in a bound book is just saving a bunch of paper.
HPsquared 9mo ago
Paper industry lobbying?
gucci-on-fleek 9mo ago
My guess would be that this was designed to be printed on smaller sheets of paper, like used in paperback novels and similar. But for some reason (possibly to make it more convenient to print on standard paper), the PDF was produced with Letter dimensions. I don't think that it's for taking notes like the other reply [0] suggests, because if that were the case, I would expect for the cover to take up the whole paper width (since nobody would ever take notes on the cover), and I would expect the margin width to alternate between pages (since it's really hard to write on the inner margin in a bound book). Using the example given in the other reply [0], the SCOTUS opinions are so narrow because they're printed on a bizarre paper size of 6 1/8" by 9 1/4" [1] [2], not to leave room to take notes. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46887595 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46887595 [1]: https://www.supremecourt.gov/casehand/guidetofilingpaidcases2023.pdf#page=2 https://www.supremecourt.gov/casehand/guidetofilingpaidcases... [2]: https://www.supremecourt.gov/filingandrules/2023RulesoftheCourt.pdf#page=47 https://www.supremecourt.gov/filingandrules/2023RulesoftheCo...

It allows note taking and corrections on drafts. Same deal with things like SCOTUS opinions. (Random example: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/24-624_b07d.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/24-624_b07d.pdf)

conductr 9mo ago
Also allows flexibility in terms of binding options
lostlogin 9mo ago
I’d have thought the 20+ pages before getting to the point would have allowed scrap paper for notes. Maybe the foreword, acknowledgements, preface and various notes contained something of value.
- ceejayoz 9mo ago
  When you're driving a small car, do you expect the lanes to automatically shrink for you? It's a standard so no one has to think "does this page have enough space", and the notes are often relevant to the current page. Stuff like the photo in https://www.thedailybeast.com/photo-details-obamas-speech-edits/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/photo-details-obamas-speech-ed...
  - lostlogin 9mo ago
    I was referring to the notes, notices and various preambles occupying the first quarter of the document.
    - ceejayoz 9mo ago
      Which are a very different sort of notes than the ones I'm talking about. They print it out and people go over it with a pen, make corrections, comments, etc.
      - dylan604 9mo ago
        To me, I read it as they are stating those pages are really useless fluff that could essentially just be ripped out and used as scratch paper as they seemingly serve no other purpose.
        lostlogin 9mo ago
        Yes, this. But as ceejayoz points out, taking notes on the actual page is better. I was having a dig at how long it took for the document to get to the point.
gucci-on-fleek 9mo ago
> Same deal with things like SCOTUS opinions. (Random example: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/24-624_b07d.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/24-624_b07d.pdf) I don't think that that's quite right. SCOTUS opinions do indeed use a narrow text size (4 1/8" by 7 1/8" [0]), but that's because they're designed to be printed on unusually narrow paper (6 1/8" by 9 1/4" [0]), not to leave room for taking notes. This paper size actually only leaves 1" margins on either side, which leaves less room for taking notes than most other documents. [0]: https://www.supremecourt.gov/filingandrules/2023RulesoftheCourt.pdf#page=47 https://www.supremecourt.gov/filingandrules/2023RulesoftheCo...
- ceejayoz 9mo ago
  When the SCOTUS justices and staffers are marking up drafts, they’re likely using regular old letter sized paper. That they can lop those margins off in the final printing that goes in a bound book is just saving a bunch of paper.

HPsquared 9mo ago

Paper industry lobbying?

gucci-on-fleek 9mo ago

My guess would be that this was designed to be printed on smaller sheets of paper, like used in paperback novels and similar. But for some reason (possibly to make it more convenient to print on standard paper), the PDF was produced with Letter dimensions. I don't think that it's for taking notes like the other reply [0] suggests, because if that were the case, I would expect for the cover to take up the whole paper width (since nobody would ever take notes on the cover), and I would expect the margin width to alternate between pages (since it's really hard to write on the inner margin in a bound book). Using the example given in the other reply [0], the SCOTUS opinions are so narrow because they're printed on a bizarre paper size of 6 1/8" by 9 1/4" [1] [2], not to leave room to take notes. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46887595 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46887595 [1]: https://www.supremecourt.gov/casehand/guidetofilingpaidcases2023.pdf#page=2 https://www.supremecourt.gov/casehand/guidetofilingpaidcases... [2]: https://www.supremecourt.gov/filingandrules/2023RulesoftheCourt.pdf#page=47 https://www.supremecourt.gov/filingandrules/2023RulesoftheCo...