3 ms·

Alternatively, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_lacing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_lacing

encom 8mo ago
Electrician here. When I went to school around 2006 or so, we actually learned how to do this. Except more like a historical curiosity. It certainly looks beautiful when done right. Sadly, nobody has time or budget for beauty any more, and that goes for all the trades. And so, I carry around bunch of cableties in my toolbag every day. If only people would learn to cut the ends off correctly, so the next guy doesn't tear his arms to shreds.
- userbinator 8mo ago
  Sadly, nobody has time or budget for beauty any more It's amazing how ornately decorated early equipment was --- especially 19th century and earlier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cooke_and_Wheatstone_electric_telegraph.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cooke_and_Wheatstone_elec...
  - blackoil 8mo ago
    Or the utilitarian cost has gone down much faster than cost of decorative. If your bulb cost $10, spending $5 to make beautiful lamp post makes sense. But if bulb cost has fallen to 10 cents now to justify $2 is difficult.
  - Cthulhu_ 8mo ago
    It's down to taste and materials too - in the past 50 years or so the general design trend is more minimalist, wood has become more and more expensive (and good quality harder to come by), etc. But the main reason is of course cost, the linked device looks like a woodworker would spend a few hours to build it (although they probably had machinery to automate parts of the process already).
  - ecshafer 8mo ago
    There has been an inversion in cost. It used to be that Materials cost a lot, and labor cost very little. There wasn't cheap plastics. particle board or synthetic rubber, it was real rubber, real wood, real metal. So it was worth it to buy the better quality thing made of nicer materials that was more artisinal and decorative. It was also cheaper to employ people just to enhance the look in a time consuming fashion. Plus since there was no miniaturization if parts broke you could replace them instead of buying a new one.
- kqr 8mo ago
  As one of the people who don't know how to cut the ends off correctly, how do I do that?
  - cl3misch 8mo ago
    Not OP, but I think they meaning cutting it as flush with the cable tie "head" as possible.
    - einpoklum 8mo ago
      That is still relatively easy to cut your finger on. I don't know that there's a correct way, really. You would probably have to take the time to file or sand the edges. Which kind of levels the playing field with the cable lacing option really in terms of time spent.
      - gnfargbl 8mo ago
        Trimming the excess flush with the head is the correct way. It's not perfect, but it is much safer than leaving a sharp stub sticking out. The absolute worst thing is to trim at any angle other than 90 degrees -- doing that creates a small knife.
        pixl97 8mo ago
        We call them thorns, and it's to keep other people out of the wiring closet!
  - lazide 8mo ago
    Use a zero clearance cutter which cuts it flat and flush with the lock. The jaws aren’t ’v’ shaped like they are for heavier wires, one side is flat and cuts flush on that side. Usually these are used for small wires. Any electrical supply place will have them - search for ‘flush cutter’ and the like. A razor (surprisingly) also works, but tends to damage other stuff easier if you slip. You can run your skin over them all day, no issues.
  - 8mo ago
- linker3000 8mo ago
  I learned how to do lacing during an electronics engineering apprenticeship in the 1980s. After the fact, when I moved more in to systems and networking, I found that flat, nylon, waxed lacing cord, with a small nut tied to the end, was lightweight and perfect for throwing through ducting and ceiling spaces very long distances, so you could backhaul cables through the void. It was a real time saver.
- Nextgrid 8mo ago
  Isn't cable lacing just inferior? Let's say you need to replace a chaffed/damaged conductor. With cable ties you cut the ones around damaged area, splice in a replacement, and slap new ties on there. With cable lacing, cutting the lacing anywhere would cause the lacing of the whole cable to lose tension and unravel?
  - wildzzz 8mo ago
    It's not too hard to slip a new wire into a laced bundle. In the places that still use lacing (aerospace), they use tefzel insulated wires that have the benefit of being super slippery against each other. This makes it easy to slip one in but it also helps reduce stiffness in the bundle because the insulation isn't sticking to itself as much as other things like vinyl. Last cable I made: https://ibb.co/4gw3GQGL https://ibb.co/4gw3GQGL
  - buildsjets 8mo ago
    That is why they sell wire spoons. https://www.steinair.com/product/wire-spoon/ https://www.steinair.com/product/wire-spoon/
- buildsjets 8mo ago
  Aerospace Engineer here. In my industry, hand-tied harnesses are commonplace at every level, from homemade garage-built aircraft, throughout all current commercial aircraft, and extending to the Mars Rover. It’s also commonplace in better racecar and motorcycle wire harness builds. I will frequently use cable ties to temporarily assemble a harness, then hand tie the final configuration and cut off the cable ties. Also, I guarantee you there is no better tool for flush-cutting cables ties so you don’t get scratched by em than the IGAN-P6 side cutters sold on Amazon for around seven dollars. I bypass my Snap-On cutters and grab them every time. If I am really, really forced to use a cable tie I prefer Cobra Ties, which have a low-profile head that keeps the tail parallel to the band, rather than protruding at a 90 degree angle. https://www.cobraties.com/collections/cobra%C2%AE-low-profile https://www.cobraties.com/collections/cobra%C2%AE-low-profil...

encom 8mo ago

Electrician here. When I went to school around 2006 or so, we actually learned how to do this. Except more like a historical curiosity. It certainly looks beautiful when done right. Sadly, nobody has time or budget for beauty any more, and that goes for all the trades. And so, I carry around bunch of cableties in my toolbag every day. If only people would learn to cut the ends off correctly, so the next guy doesn't tear his arms to shreds.

userbinator 8mo ago
Sadly, nobody has time or budget for beauty any more It's amazing how ornately decorated early equipment was --- especially 19th century and earlier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cooke_and_Wheatstone_electric_telegraph.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cooke_and_Wheatstone_elec...
- blackoil 8mo ago
  Or the utilitarian cost has gone down much faster than cost of decorative. If your bulb cost $10, spending $5 to make beautiful lamp post makes sense. But if bulb cost has fallen to 10 cents now to justify $2 is difficult.
- Cthulhu_ 8mo ago
  It's down to taste and materials too - in the past 50 years or so the general design trend is more minimalist, wood has become more and more expensive (and good quality harder to come by), etc. But the main reason is of course cost, the linked device looks like a woodworker would spend a few hours to build it (although they probably had machinery to automate parts of the process already).
- ecshafer 8mo ago
  There has been an inversion in cost. It used to be that Materials cost a lot, and labor cost very little. There wasn't cheap plastics. particle board or synthetic rubber, it was real rubber, real wood, real metal. So it was worth it to buy the better quality thing made of nicer materials that was more artisinal and decorative. It was also cheaper to employ people just to enhance the look in a time consuming fashion. Plus since there was no miniaturization if parts broke you could replace them instead of buying a new one.
kqr 8mo ago
As one of the people who don't know how to cut the ends off correctly, how do I do that?
- cl3misch 8mo ago
  Not OP, but I think they meaning cutting it as flush with the cable tie "head" as possible.
  - einpoklum 8mo ago
    That is still relatively easy to cut your finger on. I don't know that there's a correct way, really. You would probably have to take the time to file or sand the edges. Which kind of levels the playing field with the cable lacing option really in terms of time spent.
    - gnfargbl 8mo ago
      Trimming the excess flush with the head is the correct way. It's not perfect, but it is much safer than leaving a sharp stub sticking out. The absolute worst thing is to trim at any angle other than 90 degrees -- doing that creates a small knife.
      - pixl97 8mo ago
        We call them thorns, and it's to keep other people out of the wiring closet!
- lazide 8mo ago
  Use a zero clearance cutter which cuts it flat and flush with the lock. The jaws aren’t ’v’ shaped like they are for heavier wires, one side is flat and cuts flush on that side. Usually these are used for small wires. Any electrical supply place will have them - search for ‘flush cutter’ and the like. A razor (surprisingly) also works, but tends to damage other stuff easier if you slip. You can run your skin over them all day, no issues.
- 8mo ago
linker3000 8mo ago
I learned how to do lacing during an electronics engineering apprenticeship in the 1980s. After the fact, when I moved more in to systems and networking, I found that flat, nylon, waxed lacing cord, with a small nut tied to the end, was lightweight and perfect for throwing through ducting and ceiling spaces very long distances, so you could backhaul cables through the void. It was a real time saver.
Nextgrid 8mo ago
Isn't cable lacing just inferior? Let's say you need to replace a chaffed/damaged conductor. With cable ties you cut the ones around damaged area, splice in a replacement, and slap new ties on there. With cable lacing, cutting the lacing anywhere would cause the lacing of the whole cable to lose tension and unravel?
- wildzzz 8mo ago
  It's not too hard to slip a new wire into a laced bundle. In the places that still use lacing (aerospace), they use tefzel insulated wires that have the benefit of being super slippery against each other. This makes it easy to slip one in but it also helps reduce stiffness in the bundle because the insulation isn't sticking to itself as much as other things like vinyl. Last cable I made: https://ibb.co/4gw3GQGL https://ibb.co/4gw3GQGL
- buildsjets 8mo ago
  That is why they sell wire spoons. https://www.steinair.com/product/wire-spoon/ https://www.steinair.com/product/wire-spoon/
buildsjets 8mo ago
Aerospace Engineer here. In my industry, hand-tied harnesses are commonplace at every level, from homemade garage-built aircraft, throughout all current commercial aircraft, and extending to the Mars Rover. It’s also commonplace in better racecar and motorcycle wire harness builds. I will frequently use cable ties to temporarily assemble a harness, then hand tie the final configuration and cut off the cable ties. Also, I guarantee you there is no better tool for flush-cutting cables ties so you don’t get scratched by em than the IGAN-P6 side cutters sold on Amazon for around seven dollars. I bypass my Snap-On cutters and grab them every time. If I am really, really forced to use a cable tie I prefer Cobra Ties, which have a low-profile head that keeps the tail parallel to the band, rather than protruding at a 90 degree angle. https://www.cobraties.com/collections/cobra%C2%AE-low-profile https://www.cobraties.com/collections/cobra%C2%AE-low-profil...