5 ms·

Honestly, that just sounds like it does things in an unfamiliar (to you) way. That's the flip side of the coin "This means you've learned to work around its sho

Honestly, that just sounds like it does things in an unfamiliar (to you) way. That's the flip side of the coin "This means you've learned to work around its shortcomings". There is no perfect IDE. They all have problems / are inadequate / get in the way. I absolutely loathe IntelliJ IDEA for example, and think Eclipse is needlessly complex (though I'd like their code-indentation/formatting UI to replace the one in Xcode). Honestly, Xcode gets a lot of bad comments, but it works pretty well for me and the debugging tools are pretty much top-notch if you take the time to learn them. I started a project on January 5th. Running sloc right now I see: ---------- Result ------------ Physical : 44454 Source : 31019 Comment : 7284 Single-line comment : 2622 Block comment : 4662 Mixed : 210 Empty block comment : 2 Empty : 6363 To Do : 0 Number of files read : 195 ---------------------------- That's a lot of code in just under a month (and none of it from AI tools), I don't think the IDE is getting in my way.

9dev 9mo ago
First time I tried it, I realised there is no way to have a terminal emulator panel. A bloody terminal. Like the most basic feature you could integrate into an IDE. No thank you.
- spacedcowboy 9mo ago
  I'm sitting here struggling to think of why the hell you need a terminal emulator in an IDE. There's a perfectly good terminal emulator called Terminal.app, it's usually the first thing I put on my dock after a fresh install of MacOS. I like the terminal, but ... in an IDE ? I always wondered why Eclipse had one as well - it just seems like a wasted pane ? Perhaps it's just the setup you (the generic "you") are used to or something. I've got 3 4k screens connected to a Mac Studio here, and plenty of space for a terminal or four to be running on-screen at the same time and in windows that don't obscure the things I want to look at. I guess if you code on an MBP and space is limited, it might be easier to switch to ? But I generally want that space for my debugger and console-app i/o. I think it'd just get in the way...
  - timtimmy 9mo ago
    Even with IDEs that have a terminal view, I still much prefer using a separate terminal app.
    - zen928 9mo ago
      Why? It seems pretty pointless to keep hot memory of the context of every app and tab you have open as to recall what process and tab and window ties to what thing you were doing at what time, when it's effectively all one related workflow inside your Integrated* Development Environment. Do you just keep a separate dedicated tab in your terminal for actions you would only do against a single directory?
      - jen20 9mo ago
        I do the same - largely because I open the IDE with `idea .`/`zed .` (or whatever) from a directory with the correct nix dev shell already loaded in order to ensure the correct toolchains get used. Typically I have 3-4 different projects open at a time and probably 30-40 terminal windows across them and other places (in Ghostty). Honestly it had never really crossed my mind that people used the built-in terminal for anything!
      - spacedcowboy 9mo ago
        My machine has more memory than I generally know what to do with. The mapped-into-memory footprint of Terminal.app right now is ~112MB, for 12 terminal tabs across 4 windows. In other words, I don't care about the memory use. I think I commented earlier that there's not that much I use the terminal for during development - mainly git. Keeping a terminal open, mainly hidden, in the bottom-left corner with the tab set to the top-level directory isn't really a burden.
    - cosmic_cheese 9mo ago
      Same. Standalone terminals will always beat those built into other things in terms of being good at being a terminal. No need to pile more bloat onto an already bloated IDE/editor, and besides it feels kind of like those old combo TV+VCR units where neither the CRT tube nor the VHS player were great. If I'd do anything to Xcode or Android Studio, it'd be to split more things out of them and make them excellent at their core tasks.
- FranklinJabar 9mo ago
  Oh you're why they add that. I just use a dedicated app. What's the benefit of putting it in the same window as the editor?
  - 9dev 9mo ago
    Replied on a sibling too, but: > Because I like to get project-aware completions, or run pre-configured tools from the IDE in an actual shell, for example. > Also, when working on multiple projects, it’s much easier to have shells attached to a specific project that I can toggle with a keyboard shortcut to get process output or Claude right next to the code I’m looking at. Window switching is bad enough on MacOS, especially if you have multiple projects open at the same time.
  - jayd16 9mo ago
    I like that you can have multiple projects open and keep the terminals contextual. Pretty small feature but it can be nice.
- Wowfunhappy 9mo ago
  ...were built-in Terminal emulators even particularly common before VS Code? I remember that being a major feature of VS Code early on.
  - nxpnsv 9mo ago
    I think there was a term you could install in sublime
- trymas 9mo ago
  > A bloody terminal. Like the most basic feature... Since when terminal is "the most basic feature"? Reading threads in HN and seeing mild "wars" how Kitty/Alacritty/Ghostty/iTerm/Konsole/you-name-it are worse/better than Kitty/Alacritty/Ghostty/iTerm/Konsole/you-name-it, because they are slower/faster, (in)compatible with some ancient niche protocols/standards, etc. Does not seem that basic to me? Also it's personal preference, but I somehow used to have my editors and my terminals separate. I guess something about having a tool that does one thing best and all.
  - wobfan 9mo ago
    The fact that so many people are discussing their terminal just confirms the fact that a terminal is incredibly basic.
    - trymas 9mo ago
      English is not my first language, but do you mean "foundational" instead of "basic"? By your logic (that many people discuss) web browsers are "basic", IDEs are "basic", programming languages are the most "basic" thing (how many of them! discussions are limitless!!). EDIT: have the gut to explain yourself instead of downvoting ;) , I am not discussing in bad faith , but you do you.
    - spacedcowboy 9mo ago
      No. It. Doesn't. The whole conversation came from someone claiming the most basic feature of an IDE is to include a terminal - that's why people are discussing terminals. Don't get me wrong, I live in the terminal when using the computer, but I don't see a need for one when using Xcode.
      - 9dev 9mo ago
        Call it a task runner shell, if you like. What makes a development environment integrated, if not the ability to launch and manage external processes?
        9mo ago

9dev 9mo ago

First time I tried it, I realised there is no way to have a terminal emulator panel. A bloody terminal. Like the most basic feature you could integrate into an IDE. No thank you.

spacedcowboy 9mo ago
I'm sitting here struggling to think of why the hell you need a terminal emulator in an IDE. There's a perfectly good terminal emulator called Terminal.app, it's usually the first thing I put on my dock after a fresh install of MacOS. I like the terminal, but ... in an IDE ? I always wondered why Eclipse had one as well - it just seems like a wasted pane ? Perhaps it's just the setup you (the generic "you") are used to or something. I've got 3 4k screens connected to a Mac Studio here, and plenty of space for a terminal or four to be running on-screen at the same time and in windows that don't obscure the things I want to look at. I guess if you code on an MBP and space is limited, it might be easier to switch to ? But I generally want that space for my debugger and console-app i/o. I think it'd just get in the way...
- timtimmy 9mo ago
  Even with IDEs that have a terminal view, I still much prefer using a separate terminal app.
  - zen928 9mo ago
    Why? It seems pretty pointless to keep hot memory of the context of every app and tab you have open as to recall what process and tab and window ties to what thing you were doing at what time, when it's effectively all one related workflow inside your Integrated* Development Environment. Do you just keep a separate dedicated tab in your terminal for actions you would only do against a single directory?
    - jen20 9mo ago
      I do the same - largely because I open the IDE with `idea .`/`zed .` (or whatever) from a directory with the correct nix dev shell already loaded in order to ensure the correct toolchains get used. Typically I have 3-4 different projects open at a time and probably 30-40 terminal windows across them and other places (in Ghostty). Honestly it had never really crossed my mind that people used the built-in terminal for anything!
    - spacedcowboy 9mo ago
      My machine has more memory than I generally know what to do with. The mapped-into-memory footprint of Terminal.app right now is ~112MB, for 12 terminal tabs across 4 windows. In other words, I don't care about the memory use. I think I commented earlier that there's not that much I use the terminal for during development - mainly git. Keeping a terminal open, mainly hidden, in the bottom-left corner with the tab set to the top-level directory isn't really a burden.
  - cosmic_cheese 9mo ago
    Same. Standalone terminals will always beat those built into other things in terms of being good at being a terminal. No need to pile more bloat onto an already bloated IDE/editor, and besides it feels kind of like those old combo TV+VCR units where neither the CRT tube nor the VHS player were great. If I'd do anything to Xcode or Android Studio, it'd be to split more things out of them and make them excellent at their core tasks.
FranklinJabar 9mo ago
Oh you're why they add that. I just use a dedicated app. What's the benefit of putting it in the same window as the editor?
- 9dev 9mo ago
  Replied on a sibling too, but: > Because I like to get project-aware completions, or run pre-configured tools from the IDE in an actual shell, for example. > Also, when working on multiple projects, it’s much easier to have shells attached to a specific project that I can toggle with a keyboard shortcut to get process output or Claude right next to the code I’m looking at. Window switching is bad enough on MacOS, especially if you have multiple projects open at the same time.
- jayd16 9mo ago
  I like that you can have multiple projects open and keep the terminals contextual. Pretty small feature but it can be nice.
Wowfunhappy 9mo ago
...were built-in Terminal emulators even particularly common before VS Code? I remember that being a major feature of VS Code early on.
- nxpnsv 9mo ago
  I think there was a term you could install in sublime
trymas 9mo ago
> A bloody terminal. Like the most basic feature... Since when terminal is "the most basic feature"? Reading threads in HN and seeing mild "wars" how Kitty/Alacritty/Ghostty/iTerm/Konsole/you-name-it are worse/better than Kitty/Alacritty/Ghostty/iTerm/Konsole/you-name-it, because they are slower/faster, (in)compatible with some ancient niche protocols/standards, etc. Does not seem that basic to me? Also it's personal preference, but I somehow used to have my editors and my terminals separate. I guess something about having a tool that does one thing best and all.
- wobfan 9mo ago
  The fact that so many people are discussing their terminal just confirms the fact that a terminal is incredibly basic.
  - trymas 9mo ago
    English is not my first language, but do you mean "foundational" instead of "basic"? By your logic (that many people discuss) web browsers are "basic", IDEs are "basic", programming languages are the most "basic" thing (how many of them! discussions are limitless!!). EDIT: have the gut to explain yourself instead of downvoting ;) , I am not discussing in bad faith , but you do you.
  - spacedcowboy 9mo ago
    No. It. Doesn't. The whole conversation came from someone claiming the most basic feature of an IDE is to include a terminal - that's why people are discussing terminals. Don't get me wrong, I live in the terminal when using the computer, but I don't see a need for one when using Xcode.
    - 9dev 9mo ago
      Call it a task runner shell, if you like. What makes a development environment integrated, if not the ability to launch and manage external processes?
      - 9mo ago