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Makes sense. This software dependency that Europe has on the USA is very, very bad - no just with regards to Zoom, but literally anything. The US corporations a
by shevy-java 8mo ago
Makes sense. This software dependency that Europe has on the USA is very, very bad - no just with regards to Zoom, but literally anything. The US corporations are forced by law to always prioritize whoever represents the current US government, and the current US government will remain hostile as long as it is in charge; but even afterwards it is quite logical to assume that any follow-up government will prioritize US interests over European interests. So it makes no sense to pay for outsiders who would work against you.
France does a few things right; scandinavian countries too (I include The Netherlands here, though they are not really scandiavians but in their decision-making, they are often a bit like a hybrid between France and Denmark or Sweden). Spain and Italy lag behind but sometimes, surprisingly, also do the right thing. The real troublemaker is ... Germany. For a reason nobody understands, Germany is like an US satellite in everything it does, but only ... half-hearted. Naturally, "the economy" is one reason (export centric country so it is readily blackmailable by the USA here) but even then you have to ask why german politicians have absolutely no pride at all. France has pride - that's good and bad but good in this context. (UK is more an US colony really after Brexit anyway, with Farage probably going to win - and cause more damage. Brits just don't learn from this.)
- mrits 8mo ago[flagged]
- derektank 8mo ago>For a reason nobody understands, Germany is like an US satellite in everything it does I don’t see what’s surprising about this. In the post-war period, most of Europe was hostile to German empowerment, from initial opposition to West Germany’s inclusion in NATO to later resistance to German reunification. The presence of tens of thousands of US troops in Germany also required more diplomatic communication and alignment to maintain status of forces agreements. The status quo has only really changed in the last twenty years.
- chungy 8mo ago> The US corporations are forced by law to always prioritize whoever represents the current US government Where do you get your information from? This is just plainly false. Heck, it runs afoul of the Constitution, so even if the government were to try something, it'd be smacked down real fast.
- bigfudge 8mo agoI don't know if you're joking, but if not you need to start paying attention to what has been happening in US courts recently.
- le-mark 8mo agoI think it’s more accurate to say that US corporations are subject to US law. Indeed there are no laws that say anything about corporations prioritizing the party in power, but they often do as matter course.
- p_j_w 8mo ago> Where do you get your information from? Comment right above yours: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46877163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46877163 > even if the government were to try something, it'd be smacked down real fast. One would hope, but evidently not!
- dyslexit 8mo ago> This software dependency that Europe has on the USA is very, very bad - no just with regards to Zoom, but literally anything. More to this point, the article points out that one of the drivers of all this is when Microsoft killed one of the emails an ICC prosecutor's email because the US administration sanctioned them: > A decisive moment came last year when the Trump administration sanctioned the International Criminal Court’s top prosecutor after the tribunal, based in The Hague, Netherlands, issued an arrest warrant for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, an ally of President Donald Trump. > The sanctions led Microsoft to cancel Khan’s ICC email, a move that was first reported by The Associated Press and sparked fears of a “kill switch” that Big Tech companies can use to turn off service at will.
- philipallstar 8mo agoFrance does everything right except produce much software. I'm sure it can copycat things pioneered by the US, and 20 years later, but that's not exactly difficult.
- victorbojica 8mo agoDoesn't really matter if copycat or not in this case. I'd argue it's even better to be a copycat in order to move faster.
- chakazula 8mo agoTo me this is the point right? Everything that's spent enough time in the oven and has been commodified should be eventually launched as a public service. If we lived in a reasonable world this would be how things are done instead of installing permanent toll booths on everything and letting it get shittier and more expensive.
- mylifeandtimes 8mo agowhy does it matter if it is difficult? You are right, these systems should be well understood by now. And public domain.
- zppln 8mo agoSounds like a pretty good deal for France to fork US software from 20 years ago, because shit sure hasn't improved much since then.
- philipallstar 8mo agoIt definitely has, but it's more that US hardware has advanced incredibly over that time period.
- sofixa 8mo agoObviously you've never seen French software, so why pretend like you have? Counterpoints: Deezer, Doctolib, Back Market, Tidal, Adopte, Mistral, Dassault Systemes (the company behind the two main CAD softwares out there), Thales, Qonto, Kyutai, Mirakl, BeReal, Klaxoon, ABTasty, etc etc. We can do this all day. Oh, and there are ton of official government open source projects. And no, "but they're not as big as a FAAG" does not mean that the software isn't good or innovative.
- tacker2000 8mo agoSince WW2, German national pride is something that is not very well received, added to that the old east/west divide, and the generally strong identification with ones own state/region. It is a complex affair.
- pyuser583 8mo agoYou're basically saying Western European countries' relationships with the US haven't changed much since the Cold War.
- herbst 8mo agoI wouldn't agree to that. However we are in the middle of a new cold war since orange guy the first and pretty much manifested it with orange guy the second.
- epolanski 8mo agoFrance is the only country in Europe and likely the world that builds anything defense related in France. Pistols, machine guns, aircrafts, ships, helicopters, etc, it's all french.
- qball 8mo agoThe big stuff, sure, but the French state's small-arms capacity (while once impressive) has atrophied to the point of non-existence. They rely on the Germans (and to a point, Czechs) to supply their military these days.
- RamblingCTO 8mo agoAre you saying only French companies build defense stuff in France or it's the only country in Europe that builds defense stuff in general? Germany has quite a lot of defense companies that supply half the world I think.
- sofixa 8mo agoThey are saying that France is the only country that builds its own defence stuff only in country (unlike Germany that would buy American jets, for instance). And it's true for most things that matter. The only exception I can think of is manufactured by cooperative companies that are part owned by France and have facilities in France but that specific thing might be made somewhere else (e.g. Airbus A400Ms for which the final assembly is in Seville, but Airbus is jointly owned by France, Germany, Spain), and small arms (HK, German made). Small arms don't really matter in the grand scheme of things due to the low barrier of entry both for acquiring off the shelf and setting up domestic manufacturing. Good luck doing that with fighter jets or cruise missiles.
- bratwurst3000 8mo agoairbus is owned by germany and france to each 10% and spain 4%. Things get interesting if you count all the owners from the states together they have ≈ 12%. But it is controlled by Germany france spain.
- _el1s7 8mo agoEurope? Uh, I think you mean the whole world.
- BiteCode_dev 8mo agoEven worse than most people realize: https://www.bitecode.dev/p/the-eu-can-be-shut-down-with-a-few https://www.bitecode.dev/p/the-eu-can-be-shut-down-with-a-fe... That includes: Dependency on US-hosted digital services (emails, chat, calendars, ticket systems, online editors, file hosting, sync services, payment providers) — e.g., Gmail, Google Docs. Dependency on third-party authentication providers — e.g., login via Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, GitHub, and iCloud on iPhones. Dependency on US cloud infrastructure providers — e.g., companies relying on Amazon Web Services (AWS) and Microsoft Azure. Dependency through supply chain partners who rely on US tech — e.g., digitization partners using AWS/Azure impacting invoice processing. Dependency on US-based business IT software and data services — e.g., banks using Microsoft LDAP, accountants using Dropbox, telecoms storing data in Oracle data lakes. Dependency on US-controlled operating systems on user devices — e.g., Windows, macOS, iOS, Android. Dependency on US-designed chips in most devices — e.g., Qualcomm, Intel, AMD, Nvidia, Apple chip hardware.
- AlecSchueler 8mo ago> The real troublemaker is ... Germany Everyone is responding with rationale for this, but it's not actually true it's it? It feels like every week we see another German state moving away from Microsoft etc.
- tacker2000 8mo agoSome are, some arent. The Bavarian state for example just signed a huge deal with MS. https://www.heise.de/en/news/Cloud-Row-in-Bavaria-over-billion-euro-Microsoft-contract-without-tender-11114488.html https://www.heise.de/en/news/Cloud-Row-in-Bavaria-over-billi...
- AlecSchueler 8mo agoSure but I still think it's unfair to characterise Germany as an outlier or a "trouble maker." Weren't they also the ones who took the privacy fight to Google with regards to things like Street View? That kind of behaviour is making trouble for US companies.