4 ms·

I'd blame the ever decreasing ratio between salaries and the cost of living. And the fact that salaries don't really grow for years now, while the productivity

by bojan 8mo ago

I'd blame the ever decreasing ratio between salaries and the cost of living. And the fact that salaries don't really grow for years now, while the productivity, and so the generated wealth, does.

daseiner1 8mo ago
meaningfully, this is equivalent to the parent commenter. "technology" I loathe the "pop critique" employment of the phrase, but this is definitionally late-stage capitalism. obviously capitalism is named as such because it is founded upon the concept of (private) capital. capital serves to lower margins and increase profitability. it has been remarkably successful and has immensely raised QoL for virtually the planet's entire population. we are now reckoning with its inevitable consequences. manpower is unreliable. it gets sick. it has children. it has eccentricities. it is fundamentally unpredictable. Capital seeks efficiency and reliability. What percentage of the population is capable of building data centers? Of engineering massive scale LLMs? What happens when Capital no longer needs labor?
- SimianSci 8mo ago
  The answer is and always has been "paperclips." without human influence or directive, capital ceases to be become anything meaningful beyond [insert data type] at which point, it spreads like a cancer, ie: universal paperclips Capitalism is revered due to how it has significantly impacted the living standards of populations that participate in it. But increasing the living standards of populations was never the purpose of capitalism, it was a simply a side-effect.
  - daseiner1 8mo ago
    Indeed. It is a blind force of nature.
  - _DeadFred_ 8mo ago
    Capitalism started with the East India Company. That is the real Capitalist world choice. We treat our strongly regulated society as 'Capitalism' for some reason (while the Capitalists tell us we need to get rid of all the regulation that keeps them in check). Capitalism left to it's own authority creates payment in company scrip and company towns. Capitalism WANTS labor trapped with company script/company towns. Just because society outlawed that doesn't mean Capitalism isn't working in other ways to recreate that. What Capitalism does not want is empowered labor or labor lifted out from dire situations. Society is what has done that, not Capitalism. Without strict government oversight Capitalism is horrible and gives horrible results to society at large. It just has done an incredible job of painting modern society as Capitalism and claiming all benefits of things that aren't inherently from Capitalism but from Government oversite.
- colechristensen 8mo ago
  It's got nothing to do with that. People that don't need it are hoarding wealth. It's real estate value all the way down. Apartments getting tinier while getting more expensive, homes being out of reach or taking up an enormous amount of total pay in order to finance. People who own aren't living off their own labor's fruits saved for the future but on the massively increased value they're selling something they didn't have to pay nearly as much for. (not talking about inflation but actual hours of labor) You have middle aged people doing not much better than introductory jobs because the people who needed to retire haven't. The CEO pay multiple is just ridiculous.
  - daseiner1 8mo ago
    I don't believe we disagree.
PassingClouds 8mo ago
I have said for a long time that if housing was cheaper, that is a good start to getting other thing under control. It gives folks a target to hit for stability. Once a bit more stable, it frees up opportunities to address other issues. I say this as a home owner, let the market crash, I dont care what my house is valued as it is an asset not an investment.
- daotoad 8mo ago
  The problem is most people won't take that attitude. For most homeowners, the home is the largest asset. This is a Catch 22 for elected officials. We must reduce housing costs dramatically if we do so, we will devalue significant assets of a large number of active voters and political contributors. I'd love to see some ideas on how to pull this off, because we need them.
  - autoexec 8mo ago
    There are a few things I wish we'd do in the US. We could not allow foreign investors to buy up properties in the US to use as short term rentals (airbnb) when they could instead be purchased by Americans and filled with families. We could also increase vacancy taxes to help encourage property owners to fill the millions of empty homes found all over the country. We could also decrease the wealth gap so that more Americans have enough money that they don't have to wait until they are 40 years old to buy their first starter house. (https://nypost.com/2025/11/05/real-estate/median-age-of-first-time-us-home-buyer-hits-shocking-new-high-as-dire-state-of-real-estate-market-is-laid-bare/ https://nypost.com/2025/11/05/real-estate/median-age-of-firs...)
  - bojan 8mo ago
    The home is the largest asset, but the one you're living in. I personally agree with the other guy, I'd happily support a housing market crash, artificially induced if needed. However, it's more nuanced. I can support risking that my house gets less worth than my mortgage, because I consider the probability of not being able to pay off my mortgage very low. I am guessing that people who feel less secure financially do see a house as a last-resort asset, even at the price of their children not being able to afford a home. And that's the root cause that should be fixed with policy I think.

by bojan 8mo ago

I'd blame the ever decreasing ratio between salaries and the cost of living. And the fact that salaries don't really grow for years now, while the productivity, and so the generated wealth, does.

daseiner1 8mo ago

meaningfully, this is equivalent to the parent commenter. "technology" I loathe the "pop critique" employment of the phrase, but this is definitionally late-stage capitalism. obviously capitalism is named as such because it is founded upon the concept of (private) capital. capital serves to lower margins and increase profitability. it has been remarkably successful and has immensely raised QoL for virtually the planet's entire population. we are now reckoning with its inevitable consequences. manpower is unreliable. it gets sick. it has children. it has eccentricities. it is fundamentally unpredictable. Capital seeks efficiency and reliability. What percentage of the population is capable of building data centers? Of engineering massive scale LLMs? What happens when Capital no longer needs labor?

SimianSci 8mo ago
The answer is and always has been "paperclips." without human influence or directive, capital ceases to be become anything meaningful beyond [insert data type] at which point, it spreads like a cancer, ie: universal paperclips Capitalism is revered due to how it has significantly impacted the living standards of populations that participate in it. But increasing the living standards of populations was never the purpose of capitalism, it was a simply a side-effect.
- daseiner1 8mo ago
  Indeed. It is a blind force of nature.
- _DeadFred_ 8mo ago
  Capitalism started with the East India Company. That is the real Capitalist world choice. We treat our strongly regulated society as 'Capitalism' for some reason (while the Capitalists tell us we need to get rid of all the regulation that keeps them in check). Capitalism left to it's own authority creates payment in company scrip and company towns. Capitalism WANTS labor trapped with company script/company towns. Just because society outlawed that doesn't mean Capitalism isn't working in other ways to recreate that. What Capitalism does not want is empowered labor or labor lifted out from dire situations. Society is what has done that, not Capitalism. Without strict government oversight Capitalism is horrible and gives horrible results to society at large. It just has done an incredible job of painting modern society as Capitalism and claiming all benefits of things that aren't inherently from Capitalism but from Government oversite.
colechristensen 8mo ago
It's got nothing to do with that. People that don't need it are hoarding wealth. It's real estate value all the way down. Apartments getting tinier while getting more expensive, homes being out of reach or taking up an enormous amount of total pay in order to finance. People who own aren't living off their own labor's fruits saved for the future but on the massively increased value they're selling something they didn't have to pay nearly as much for. (not talking about inflation but actual hours of labor) You have middle aged people doing not much better than introductory jobs because the people who needed to retire haven't. The CEO pay multiple is just ridiculous.
- daseiner1 8mo ago
  I don't believe we disagree.

PassingClouds 8mo ago

I have said for a long time that if housing was cheaper, that is a good start to getting other thing under control. It gives folks a target to hit for stability. Once a bit more stable, it frees up opportunities to address other issues. I say this as a home owner, let the market crash, I dont care what my house is valued as it is an asset not an investment.

daotoad 8mo ago
The problem is most people won't take that attitude. For most homeowners, the home is the largest asset. This is a Catch 22 for elected officials. We must reduce housing costs dramatically if we do so, we will devalue significant assets of a large number of active voters and political contributors. I'd love to see some ideas on how to pull this off, because we need them.
- autoexec 8mo ago
  There are a few things I wish we'd do in the US. We could not allow foreign investors to buy up properties in the US to use as short term rentals (airbnb) when they could instead be purchased by Americans and filled with families. We could also increase vacancy taxes to help encourage property owners to fill the millions of empty homes found all over the country. We could also decrease the wealth gap so that more Americans have enough money that they don't have to wait until they are 40 years old to buy their first starter house. (https://nypost.com/2025/11/05/real-estate/median-age-of-first-time-us-home-buyer-hits-shocking-new-high-as-dire-state-of-real-estate-market-is-laid-bare/ https://nypost.com/2025/11/05/real-estate/median-age-of-firs...)
- bojan 8mo ago
  The home is the largest asset, but the one you're living in. I personally agree with the other guy, I'd happily support a housing market crash, artificially induced if needed. However, it's more nuanced. I can support risking that my house gets less worth than my mortgage, because I consider the probability of not being able to pay off my mortgage very low. I am guessing that people who feel less secure financially do see a house as a last-resort asset, even at the price of their children not being able to afford a home. And that's the root cause that should be fixed with policy I think.