5 ms·

Item one in that list is CSAM.

chrisjj 9mo ago
You are mistaken. Item #1 is "images of children of a pornographic nature". Wheras "CSAM isn’t pornography—it’s evidence of criminal exploitation of kids." https://rainn.org/get-informed/get-the-facts-about-sexual-violence/get-the-facts-about-csam-child-sexual-abuse-material/ https://rainn.org/get-informed/get-the-facts-about-sexual-vi...
- ffsm8 9mo ago
  You're wrong - at least from the perspective of the commons. First paragraph on Wikipedia > Child pornography (CP), also known as child sexual abuse material (CSAM) and by more informal terms such as kiddie porn,[1][2][3] is erotic material that involves or depicts persons under the designated age of majority. The precise characteristics of what constitutes child pornography vary by criminal jurisdiction.[4][5] Honestly, reading your link got me seriously facepalming. The whole argument seems to be centered around the fact that sexualizing children is disgusting, hence it shouldn't be called porn. While i'd agree that sexualizing kids is disgusting, denying that it's porn on that grounds is feels kinda... Childish? Like someone holding their ears closed and shouting loudly in order not to hear the words the adults around them are saying.
  - chrisjj 9mo ago
    > First paragraph on Wikipedia "...the encyclopedia anyone can edit." Yes, there are people who wish to redefine CSAM to include child porn - including even that between consenting children committing no crime and no abuse. Compare and contrast Interpol. https://www.interpol.int/en/Crimes/Crimes-against-children/Appropriate-terminology https://www.interpol.int/en/Crimes/Crimes-against-children/A... > The whole argument seems to be centered around the fact that sexualizing children is disgusting, hence it shouldn't be called porn. I have no idea how anyone could reasonably draw that conclusion from this thread.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
    - ffsm8 9mo ago
      > have no idea how anyone could reasonably draw that conclusion from this thread. > > Honestly, reading your link got me seriously facepalming. The whole argument seems to be centered around the fact that sexualizing children is disgusting, hence it shouldn't be called porn. Where exactly did you get the impression from I made this observation from this comment thread? Your interpol link seems to be literally using the same argument again from a very casual glance btw. > We encourage the use of appropriate terminology to avoid trivializing the sexual abuse and exploitation of children. > Pornography is a term used for adults engaging in consensual sexual acts distributed (mostly) legally to the general public for their sexual pleasure.
      - chrisjj 9mo ago
        > Where exactly did you get the impression from I made this observation from this comment thread? I assumed you expected us to know what you were referring to.
        ffsm8 9mo ago
        > Honestly, reading your link got me seriously facepalming. You were unable to figure that out despite that sentence? Wow
  - bawolff 9mo ago
    I think the idea is that normal porn can be consensual. Material involving children never can be. Perhaps similar to how we have a word for murder that is different from "killing" even though murder always involves killing.
- direwolf20 9mo ago
  Well, RAINN are stupid then. CSAM is the woke word for child pornography, which is the normal.word for pornography involving children. Pornography is defined as material aiming to sexually stimulate, and CSAM is that.
  - chrisjj 9mo ago
    > CSAM is the woke word for child pornography I fear you could be correct.
    - direwolf20 9mo ago
      CSAM is to child pornography as MAP is to pedophile. Both words used to refer to a thing without the negative connotation.
      - chrisjj 9mo ago
        > CSSM is to child pornography CSSM?
        anigbrowl 9mo ago
        Dude just stop, you are being ridiculous now.
        chrisjj 9mo ago
        Ah. You edited it to CSAM. Thanks. Well, I'm sure CSAM has negative connotation. Our UK Govt. doesn't keep a database of all CSAM found by the police because its a positive thing.
        direwolf20 9mo ago
        Only people who are involved in CSAM arguments on the internet know what CSAM means. Ask some random person on the street if they know what CSAM means. Then ask them if they know what child porn means.
- anigbrowl 9mo ago
  A distinction without a difference. Even if some kid makes a video of themselves jerking off for their own personal enjoyment, unprompted by anyone else, if someone else gains access to that (eg a technician at a store or an unprincipled guardian) and makes a copy for themselves they're criminally exploiting the kid by doing so.
  - chrisjj 9mo ago
    > A distinction without a difference. Huge difference here in Europe. CSAM is a much more serious crime. That's why e.g. Interpol runs a global database of CSAM but doesn't bother for mere child porn.
  - guerrilla 9mo ago
    Seems like a pretty big difference. It's got to be worse to actually do something to somone in real life than not do that.
    - lysp 9mo ago
      Not really, otherwise perpetrators will just "I was just looking at it, I didn't do anything as bad as creating it". Their act is still illegal. There was a cartoon picture I remember seeing around 15+ years ago of Bart Simpson performing a sex act. In some jurisdictions (such as Australia), this falls under the legal definition.
      - guerrilla 9mo ago
        > Not really, otherwise perpetrators You don't think it's worse to molest a child than to not molest a child?
    - anigbrowl 9mo ago
      Just because there are different degrees of severity and different ways to offend doesn't make it not contraband.
      - 9mo ago

You are mistaken. Item #1 is "images of children of a pornographic nature". Wheras "CSAM isn’t pornography—it’s evidence of criminal exploitation of kids." https://rainn.org/get-informed/get-the-facts-about-sexual-violence/get-the-facts-about-csam-child-sexual-abuse-material/ https://rainn.org/get-informed/get-the-facts-about-sexual-vi...

ffsm8 9mo ago
You're wrong - at least from the perspective of the commons. First paragraph on Wikipedia > Child pornography (CP), also known as child sexual abuse material (CSAM) and by more informal terms such as kiddie porn,[1][2][3] is erotic material that involves or depicts persons under the designated age of majority. The precise characteristics of what constitutes child pornography vary by criminal jurisdiction.[4][5] Honestly, reading your link got me seriously facepalming. The whole argument seems to be centered around the fact that sexualizing children is disgusting, hence it shouldn't be called porn. While i'd agree that sexualizing kids is disgusting, denying that it's porn on that grounds is feels kinda... Childish? Like someone holding their ears closed and shouting loudly in order not to hear the words the adults around them are saying.
- chrisjj 9mo ago
  > First paragraph on Wikipedia "...the encyclopedia anyone can edit." Yes, there are people who wish to redefine CSAM to include child porn - including even that between consenting children committing no crime and no abuse. Compare and contrast Interpol. https://www.interpol.int/en/Crimes/Crimes-against-children/Appropriate-terminology https://www.interpol.int/en/Crimes/Crimes-against-children/A... > The whole argument seems to be centered around the fact that sexualizing children is disgusting, hence it shouldn't be called porn. I have no idea how anyone could reasonably draw that conclusion from this thread.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - ffsm8 9mo ago
    > have no idea how anyone could reasonably draw that conclusion from this thread. > > Honestly, reading your link got me seriously facepalming. The whole argument seems to be centered around the fact that sexualizing children is disgusting, hence it shouldn't be called porn. Where exactly did you get the impression from I made this observation from this comment thread? Your interpol link seems to be literally using the same argument again from a very casual glance btw. > We encourage the use of appropriate terminology to avoid trivializing the sexual abuse and exploitation of children. > Pornography is a term used for adults engaging in consensual sexual acts distributed (mostly) legally to the general public for their sexual pleasure.
    - chrisjj 9mo ago
      > Where exactly did you get the impression from I made this observation from this comment thread? I assumed you expected us to know what you were referring to.
      - ffsm8 9mo ago
        > Honestly, reading your link got me seriously facepalming. You were unable to figure that out despite that sentence? Wow
- bawolff 9mo ago
  I think the idea is that normal porn can be consensual. Material involving children never can be. Perhaps similar to how we have a word for murder that is different from "killing" even though murder always involves killing.
direwolf20 9mo ago
Well, RAINN are stupid then. CSAM is the woke word for child pornography, which is the normal.word for pornography involving children. Pornography is defined as material aiming to sexually stimulate, and CSAM is that.
- chrisjj 9mo ago
  > CSAM is the woke word for child pornography I fear you could be correct.
  - direwolf20 9mo ago
    CSAM is to child pornography as MAP is to pedophile. Both words used to refer to a thing without the negative connotation.
    - chrisjj 9mo ago
      > CSSM is to child pornography CSSM?
      - anigbrowl 9mo ago
        Dude just stop, you are being ridiculous now.
      - chrisjj 9mo ago
        Ah. You edited it to CSAM. Thanks. Well, I'm sure CSAM has negative connotation. Our UK Govt. doesn't keep a database of all CSAM found by the police because its a positive thing.
        direwolf20 9mo ago
        Only people who are involved in CSAM arguments on the internet know what CSAM means. Ask some random person on the street if they know what CSAM means. Then ask them if they know what child porn means.
anigbrowl 9mo ago
A distinction without a difference. Even if some kid makes a video of themselves jerking off for their own personal enjoyment, unprompted by anyone else, if someone else gains access to that (eg a technician at a store or an unprincipled guardian) and makes a copy for themselves they're criminally exploiting the kid by doing so.
- chrisjj 9mo ago
  > A distinction without a difference. Huge difference here in Europe. CSAM is a much more serious crime. That's why e.g. Interpol runs a global database of CSAM but doesn't bother for mere child porn.
- guerrilla 9mo ago
  Seems like a pretty big difference. It's got to be worse to actually do something to somone in real life than not do that.
  - lysp 9mo ago
    Not really, otherwise perpetrators will just "I was just looking at it, I didn't do anything as bad as creating it". Their act is still illegal. There was a cartoon picture I remember seeing around 15+ years ago of Bart Simpson performing a sex act. In some jurisdictions (such as Australia), this falls under the legal definition.
    - guerrilla 9mo ago
      > Not really, otherwise perpetrators You don't think it's worse to molest a child than to not molest a child?
  - anigbrowl 9mo ago
    Just because there are different degrees of severity and different ways to offend doesn't make it not contraband.
    - 9mo ago