4 ms·

> We have banned heroin so we should be able to ban anything else that's toxic Except banning heroin clearly didn't work so well! There's still a lot of people

by leoedin 9mo ago

> We have banned heroin so we should be able to ban anything else that's toxic Except banning heroin clearly didn't work so well! There's still a lot of people using it. And the profits from selling it go to criminal gangs. And the people using it often die due to inconsistent dosing. How do you define "manipulative potential"? If you ban sugar in drinks, do you ban fruit juice too? Where do we draw the line for "acceptable harm"? Personally I don't want to live in a society which bans huge numbers of things.

fsflover 9mo ago
You can tax drinks based on the amount of sugar they contain. Yes, including juices.
- teekert 9mo ago
  Yeah, in my country oat milk is now taxed as a juice, of course milk isn't. So the plant based alternative is now 2x the price of cow milk. Thanx Milk industry.
  - cpursley 9mo ago
    Milk is an order of magnitude healthier than the highly processed sludge called oak “milk”.
    - fsflover 8mo ago
      Source?
      - cpursley 8mo ago
        It’s considered an Ultraproceed food item. Just look up how it’s made and what’s added to it (oils, emulsifiers, fortified with minerals). It’s basically liquid cereal, but maybe worse.
        fsflover 8mo ago
        > It’s considered an Ultraproceed food item By whom? Oils are not necessarily bad for you.
        shrubby 8mo ago
        Animal fat/milk with the hormones of a different mammal seem to be causing a lot of problems. Planetary and health related. And the low fat milk in the carton is pretty far from natural, where oat milk in example seems to be pretty simple process based on quick googling: https://www.loveandlemons.com/oat-milk/ https://www.loveandlemons.com/oat-milk/ Of course any industry can make anything ultra processed, like oat milk, but the generalization was wee bit hefty here.
        cpursley 8mo ago
        With dairy, is especially important to go for the organic options. In generally (excluding parts of Asia), humans have been cultivating livestock and consuming dairy for tens of thousands of years. Our bodies are evolved for it, but not the ultra processed goop and all the added sugar everywhere. If you want to avoid animal products, it’s probably best to just drink water than these engineered “milks”.
        fsflover 8mo ago
        > especially important to go for the organic options According to Wikipedia, organic food does not offer any advantage over ordinary food.
        KempyKolibri 8mo ago
        There’s essentially no evidence that the degree of ultraprocessing affects a food’s healthfulness. There are tenuous and broad associations between UPF content of a diet and health outcomes, but these are based on invalidated FFQs for the exposure we’re interested in, and all the subgroup analyses where available suggest this is driven by SSBs and processed meat. I’m not sure why we’d consider oils, emulsifiers or fortification and indicator of poor health outcomes. Whole grain cereals are associated with positive health outcomes so I’m not sure why something being a liquid cereal would be a negative. FWIW I would agree that oat milk is probably an inferior milk to dairy in most aspects except fibre content, but that’s not because of the reasons you gave. And soy milk seems either equal or superior to dairy milk in all outcomes that I’ve seen.
hellweaver666 9mo ago
What's the difference between a big company and a criminal gang if not for the law? If it wasn't for the big companies, more dangerous things would be illegal, just like Heroin and other hard drugs.
- cobblestone32 8mo ago
  I mean, it's not often you hear about tobacco dealers shooting each other in a crowded mall, or alcohol bosses getting their house blown up (or sometimes their neighbors house). So there might be a few small differences between companies and criminal gangs.
  - mapontosevenths 8mo ago
    > or alcohol bosses getting their house blown up (or sometimes their neighbors house). There was a time when alcohol dealing led to an awful lot of that sort of violence. We put a stop to it when we legalized Alcohol and regulated it.
randomNumber7 8mo ago
I agree. Maybe one would need to ban the misinformative marketing (although I know that opens another can of worms).

by leoedin 9mo ago

fsflover 9mo ago

You can tax drinks based on the amount of sugar they contain. Yes, including juices.

teekert 9mo ago
Yeah, in my country oat milk is now taxed as a juice, of course milk isn't. So the plant based alternative is now 2x the price of cow milk. Thanx Milk industry.
- cpursley 9mo ago
  Milk is an order of magnitude healthier than the highly processed sludge called oak “milk”.
  - fsflover 8mo ago
    Source?
    - cpursley 8mo ago
      It’s considered an Ultraproceed food item. Just look up how it’s made and what’s added to it (oils, emulsifiers, fortified with minerals). It’s basically liquid cereal, but maybe worse.
      - fsflover 8mo ago
        > It’s considered an Ultraproceed food item By whom? Oils are not necessarily bad for you.
        shrubby 8mo ago
        Animal fat/milk with the hormones of a different mammal seem to be causing a lot of problems. Planetary and health related. And the low fat milk in the carton is pretty far from natural, where oat milk in example seems to be pretty simple process based on quick googling: https://www.loveandlemons.com/oat-milk/ https://www.loveandlemons.com/oat-milk/ Of course any industry can make anything ultra processed, like oat milk, but the generalization was wee bit hefty here.
        cpursley 8mo ago
        With dairy, is especially important to go for the organic options. In generally (excluding parts of Asia), humans have been cultivating livestock and consuming dairy for tens of thousands of years. Our bodies are evolved for it, but not the ultra processed goop and all the added sugar everywhere. If you want to avoid animal products, it’s probably best to just drink water than these engineered “milks”.
        fsflover 8mo ago
        > especially important to go for the organic options According to Wikipedia, organic food does not offer any advantage over ordinary food.
      - KempyKolibri 8mo ago
        There’s essentially no evidence that the degree of ultraprocessing affects a food’s healthfulness. There are tenuous and broad associations between UPF content of a diet and health outcomes, but these are based on invalidated FFQs for the exposure we’re interested in, and all the subgroup analyses where available suggest this is driven by SSBs and processed meat. I’m not sure why we’d consider oils, emulsifiers or fortification and indicator of poor health outcomes. Whole grain cereals are associated with positive health outcomes so I’m not sure why something being a liquid cereal would be a negative. FWIW I would agree that oat milk is probably an inferior milk to dairy in most aspects except fibre content, but that’s not because of the reasons you gave. And soy milk seems either equal or superior to dairy milk in all outcomes that I’ve seen.

hellweaver666 9mo ago

What's the difference between a big company and a criminal gang if not for the law? If it wasn't for the big companies, more dangerous things would be illegal, just like Heroin and other hard drugs.

cobblestone32 8mo ago
I mean, it's not often you hear about tobacco dealers shooting each other in a crowded mall, or alcohol bosses getting their house blown up (or sometimes their neighbors house). So there might be a few small differences between companies and criminal gangs.
- mapontosevenths 8mo ago
  > or alcohol bosses getting their house blown up (or sometimes their neighbors house). There was a time when alcohol dealing led to an awful lot of that sort of violence. We put a stop to it when we legalized Alcohol and regulated it.

randomNumber7 8mo ago

I agree. Maybe one would need to ban the misinformative marketing (although I know that opens another can of worms).