4 ms·

That’s not the point of the person you are replying to. They are saying if we somehow come up with the tech that makes harnessing the sun a thing, the best we c

by WD-42 9mo ago

That’s not the point of the person you are replying to. They are saying if we somehow come up with the tech that makes harnessing the sun a thing, the best we can still do is put a bunch of GPUs in space? It makes no sense.

trhway 9mo ago
>the best we can oh, we'll sure find a way to weaponize that energy for example - just imagine all those panels simultaneously turning their reflective back in a way to form gigantic mirror to focus reflected solar energy on your enemy, be that enemy in space or on the Earth/Moon/Mars ground. Basically space-scale version of 'death ray scyscrapper' https://www.businessinsider.com/death-ray-skyscraper-is-wreaking-havoc-on-london-for-a-few-totally-insane-reasons-2015-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/death-ray-skyscraper-is-wrea.... Back in the day the Star Wars program was intending to use nuclear explosions to power the lasers, i guess once all that solar for AI gets deployed in space we wouldn't need the explosions anymore. Interesting that such space deployment can deny access to space to anybody else, and that means that any competitive superpower has to rush to deploy similar scale system of their own. Space race v2.
- SllX 9mo ago
  Pick any Gundam series and watch the last 5 or 6 episodes, at least through the Gundam SEED/Destiny era. At least part of the plot will invariably include a space-based superweapon being deployed by one side of the war to end all wars and the the plot for a few episodes will include the other side engaging in a series of challenges to keep that from firing again and destroying it if possible.
rob74 9mo ago
It kinda does make sense if you consider that solar panels in space have been used for a very long time (to power satellites). However, getting the electricity they generate down to Earth is very complicated, so you end up having to use it in space, and one of few things that would make sense for that is indeed data centers, because getting the data to Earth is easier (and Elon already handily has a solution for that). However I'm curious how many solar panels you would need to power a typical data center. Are we talking something like a large satellite, or rather a huge satellite with ISS-size solar arrays bolted on? Getting rid of the copious amounts of heat that data centers generate might also be a challenge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_thermal_control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_thermal_control)...
- spiderfarmer 9mo ago
  A 10MW data center would require square kilometers of solar arrays, even in space. It’s just as real as the 25k Model 3.
  - tim333 9mo ago
    0.2 sq km approx.
- mike_hearn 9mo ago
  The plan seems to be for lots and lots of smaller satellites. For inferencing it can work well. One satellite could contain a handful of CPUs and do batch inferencing of even very large models, perhaps in the beginning at low speeds. Currently most AI workloads are interactive but I can't see that staying true for long, as things improve and they can be trusted to work independently for longer it makes more sense to just queue stuff up and not worry about exactly how high your TTFT is. For training I don't see it today. In future maybe. But then, most AI workloads in future should be inferencing not training anyway.
  - KoolKat23 9mo ago
    Latency means this still makes no sense to me. Perhaps some batch background processing job such as research or something but that's stretching.
    - mike_hearn 9mo ago
      I think the most providers all give high latency batch APIs significant discounts. A lot of AI workloads feel batch-oriented to me, or could be once they move beyond the prototype and testing phases. Chat will end up being a small fraction of load in the long term.
      - KoolKat23 9mo ago
        That would imply there's still capacity here on earth for this type of traffic.
brador 9mo ago
Sending post-compute radio waves to Earth is much safer than sending back TW of power.
- saghm 9mo ago
  That's even more reason that if we manage to increase the amount of solar energy cells by 1000x there are so many more effective ways to use it than immediately flinging them into space. They're not getting constructed as satellites mid-orbit, after all.
  - whamlastxmas 9mo ago
    The problem Elon is trying to address is a societal one, not a technical one. The amount of push back on clean energy generation and manufacturing prevents data centers on earth from being as feasible as they should be. He only got his newly opened xAI data center open using temporary generators on trailers and skirting the permitting process by using laws designed for things like traveling circuses.
    - coffeebeqn 9mo ago
      Interesting phrasing. Does our society exist to see that no billionaires flavor of the month whims go unfulfilled?
      - whamlastxmas 9mo ago
        I'm not supporter of capitalism, but what Elon is doing is the same as any other business or capitalist participant. He is seeing current demand and anticipating future demand and building systems to meet that demand. I have no desire for society to fulfill whims of the ruling elite but I don't think Elon is doing this on a whim anymore than any business doing any thing likely to make them money.
        int_19h 8mo ago
        I don't think Elon is motivated purely by money. If he were, a lot of his actions don't make any sense, like tanking his own public image repeatedly by doing silly childish things. It's more likely that he genuinely believes that he's building the future of human civilization, and he wants himself in charge of that so that he can shape it how he sees fit. You're right that our socioeconomic system unfortunately doesn't have any guardrails for that kind of behavior. Arguably that's a bug (or yet another symptom of the architecture being fundamentally flawed).
bigmm 9mo ago
give us a break, you have to start somewhere, and find someone willing to start it all

by WD-42 9mo ago

trhway 9mo ago

>the best we can oh, we'll sure find a way to weaponize that energy for example - just imagine all those panels simultaneously turning their reflective back in a way to form gigantic mirror to focus reflected solar energy on your enemy, be that enemy in space or on the Earth/Moon/Mars ground. Basically space-scale version of 'death ray scyscrapper' https://www.businessinsider.com/death-ray-skyscraper-is-wreaking-havoc-on-london-for-a-few-totally-insane-reasons-2015-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/death-ray-skyscraper-is-wrea.... Back in the day the Star Wars program was intending to use nuclear explosions to power the lasers, i guess once all that solar for AI gets deployed in space we wouldn't need the explosions anymore. Interesting that such space deployment can deny access to space to anybody else, and that means that any competitive superpower has to rush to deploy similar scale system of their own. Space race v2.

SllX 9mo ago
Pick any Gundam series and watch the last 5 or 6 episodes, at least through the Gundam SEED/Destiny era. At least part of the plot will invariably include a space-based superweapon being deployed by one side of the war to end all wars and the the plot for a few episodes will include the other side engaging in a series of challenges to keep that from firing again and destroying it if possible.

rob74 9mo ago

It kinda does make sense if you consider that solar panels in space have been used for a very long time (to power satellites). However, getting the electricity they generate down to Earth is very complicated, so you end up having to use it in space, and one of few things that would make sense for that is indeed data centers, because getting the data to Earth is easier (and Elon already handily has a solution for that). However I'm curious how many solar panels you would need to power a typical data center. Are we talking something like a large satellite, or rather a huge satellite with ISS-size solar arrays bolted on? Getting rid of the copious amounts of heat that data centers generate might also be a challenge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_thermal_control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_thermal_control)...

spiderfarmer 9mo ago
A 10MW data center would require square kilometers of solar arrays, even in space. It’s just as real as the 25k Model 3.
- tim333 9mo ago
  0.2 sq km approx.
mike_hearn 9mo ago
The plan seems to be for lots and lots of smaller satellites. For inferencing it can work well. One satellite could contain a handful of CPUs and do batch inferencing of even very large models, perhaps in the beginning at low speeds. Currently most AI workloads are interactive but I can't see that staying true for long, as things improve and they can be trusted to work independently for longer it makes more sense to just queue stuff up and not worry about exactly how high your TTFT is. For training I don't see it today. In future maybe. But then, most AI workloads in future should be inferencing not training anyway.
- KoolKat23 9mo ago
  Latency means this still makes no sense to me. Perhaps some batch background processing job such as research or something but that's stretching.
  - mike_hearn 9mo ago
    I think the most providers all give high latency batch APIs significant discounts. A lot of AI workloads feel batch-oriented to me, or could be once they move beyond the prototype and testing phases. Chat will end up being a small fraction of load in the long term.
    - KoolKat23 9mo ago
      That would imply there's still capacity here on earth for this type of traffic.

brador 9mo ago

Sending post-compute radio waves to Earth is much safer than sending back TW of power.

saghm 9mo ago
That's even more reason that if we manage to increase the amount of solar energy cells by 1000x there are so many more effective ways to use it than immediately flinging them into space. They're not getting constructed as satellites mid-orbit, after all.
- whamlastxmas 9mo ago
  The problem Elon is trying to address is a societal one, not a technical one. The amount of push back on clean energy generation and manufacturing prevents data centers on earth from being as feasible as they should be. He only got his newly opened xAI data center open using temporary generators on trailers and skirting the permitting process by using laws designed for things like traveling circuses.
  - coffeebeqn 9mo ago
    Interesting phrasing. Does our society exist to see that no billionaires flavor of the month whims go unfulfilled?
    - whamlastxmas 9mo ago
      I'm not supporter of capitalism, but what Elon is doing is the same as any other business or capitalist participant. He is seeing current demand and anticipating future demand and building systems to meet that demand. I have no desire for society to fulfill whims of the ruling elite but I don't think Elon is doing this on a whim anymore than any business doing any thing likely to make them money.
      - int_19h 8mo ago
        I don't think Elon is motivated purely by money. If he were, a lot of his actions don't make any sense, like tanking his own public image repeatedly by doing silly childish things. It's more likely that he genuinely believes that he's building the future of human civilization, and he wants himself in charge of that so that he can shape it how he sees fit. You're right that our socioeconomic system unfortunately doesn't have any guardrails for that kind of behavior. Arguably that's a bug (or yet another symptom of the architecture being fundamentally flawed).

bigmm 9mo ago

give us a break, you have to start somewhere, and find someone willing to start it all