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I'm an Anki user, on and off since 10 years or so, but was still confused. If I understood correctly, the entities here are: - Anki, as set up by dae aka Damie

by Aachen 9mo ago

I'm an Anki user, on and off since 10 years or so, but was still confused. If I understood correctly, the entities here are: - Anki, as set up by dae aka Damien, is like the brand name and desktop implementation with the spaced repetition algorithm - AnkiWeb is what I thought this hub thing was. It's where you download decks - AnkiHub is a third party (started by "AnKing", now 35 employees) who sells decks as a monthly subscription and has their content on the deep web (you need to create an account and agree to terms to even see a listing of what's there besides a few featured parts). This is who is getting ownership of the former two. Because they write that Anki will remain open source at its "core", I presume that means that things will, at best, stay stable rather than anything (like AnkiWeb the deck sharing platform) becoming open - AnkiDroid is a separate open source project (an Android app). The corporation is hiring the main developer, but it's not yet clear to me whether they're just going to get paid to work more on AnkiDroid or if they're also getting other tasks

Aachen 9mo ago
(Same person as above but felt that this part had a separate purpose so I've moved it into its own comment) The ecosystem is currently such that it seems hard to enshittify it. They say they have no intention of doing that and I believe it, but their vision of a healthy and good product might involve a fair price (for rich countries at least) whereas it was always free so far Time will tell; it sounds like there's currently no plans either way, but it's also simply open enough that users can always just install the open source software and share decks with each other by whatever file transfer/sharing means. Everything that's already there won't simply go away. I'm going to keep using AnkiDroid and building the language deck I am working on
- runarberg 9mo ago
  Worth mentioning too is the FSRS algorithm for scheduling cards is implemented in separate libraries which are released under MIT license.
- zozbot234 9mo ago
  The iOS app has never been free and that's the way most people use it these days. Desktop computing is a niche.
  - cosmic_cheese 9mo ago
    This may be true, but as someone who picked up Anki as a desktop app back around 2009 it feels a little crazy. I also can’t imagine making cards on a phone, given how much switching between apps/windows is involved and how poor mobile platforms are at multitasking. It’s difficult to envision it being anything but maddening.
    - 7jjjjjjj 9mo ago
      Desktop for creating cards, mobile for reviewing them.
      - cosmic_cheese 9mo ago
        I prefer a laptop for reviewing because it’s still portable, but also more amenable to comfort for longer sessions and makes spot corrections easier.
      - angeladarby077 9mo ago
        Who is this
    - zelphirkalt 9mo ago
      That's how some people do their "computing" these days, if they do any that deserves the name at all. I had to do some of that on vacation. With a modern phone it's possible, but mentally taxing. Phones feel like MS-DOS operating systems, where each application is fullscreen. Most people are just consumers. This is probably true for Anki decks as well. Only a small minority creates decks, the vast majority only consumes.
  - rjh29 9mo ago
    In America perhaps. Android is more popular in other countries, most people I know use Anki for free. The desktop app and sync are useful for editing cards and managing a large collection. Both of those are free too, but for how long?
digiown 9mo ago
> AnkiWeb Worth noting you don't need to use it. Anki comes with a syncserver implementation for a while now, and there are docker images too. It's worth it for the transfer speeds alone IMO. Anki is under AGPL too, which has an anti-DRM clause, so many type of enshittification of anki or their addons (e.g. to prevent sharing of their decks) would be unenforceable too. As such I see no obvious things that would be susceptible to enshittification here.
- pityJuke 9mo ago
  Aha [0], that is neat. [0]: https://docs.ankiweb.net/sync-server.html https://docs.ankiweb.net/sync-server.html
  - bangonkeyboard 9mo ago
    I've tried several times before to install syncserver using those pip instructions, on multiple platforms, without success.
    - david_allison 9mo ago
      Try docker: https://github.com/ankitects/anki/tree/main/docs/syncserver#building-and-running-anki-sync-server-in-docker https://github.com/ankitects/anki/tree/main/docs/syncserver#...
    - dhoe 9mo ago
      Just as a counterpoint, to avoid people getting the wrong idea about the complexity involved - I use it and it took literally minutes. The most confusing part was that the sync settings in Ankidroid referred to Ankiweb.
      - david_allison 9mo ago
        Hey, could you put in an issue, especially regarding the pain points, but also including what 'seems unusual': https://github.com/ankidroid/Anki-Android https://github.com/ankidroid/Anki-Android It's mostly due to time/resource/technical constraints [some of our strings come from a shared backend], but we can do better here, especially if there's now a lot more community interest in the feature. Pull requests welcome! Do feel free to get in touch on the issue/Discord.
eudamoniac 9mo ago
This sounds concerning. Someone ought to back up the public AnkiWeb decks while we still can.
david_allison 9mo ago
> - AnkiDroid is a separate open source project (an Android app). The corporation is hiring the main developer, but it's not yet clear to me whether they're just going to get paid to work more on AnkiDroid or if they're also getting other tasks ---- To copy from my message on Discord: > I’m moving to a full-time position working on Anki [incl. AnkiWeb & AnkiMobile]. I’m really excited about this, but there’s a mountain of pending, somewhat undefined work which will need to be done, and it’ll need my full-time attention for a while. > I’ll still be contributing to AnkiDroid, but I won’t be able to commit as much time as I am doing currently (at least for the first few months while things stabilize). I’ll be here on evenings/weekends, and will be contributing in other ways (hopefully: unified Note Editor, JS addons etc… ), but I expect to slow down with code contributions to ensure I’m staying on on top of PR reviews & general force multiplier work. I’m definitely Org Admin’ing for GSoC over the summer [assuming Google gives us the greenlight], it’s historically been a VERY light role. > In all honesty: I’m expecting things to be business as usual, I have more than enough capacity to keep up with the notification queue. Even if I completely dropped off the planet, we’re a great team and the improvements would keep on flowing. AnkiDroid’s bus factor has been >>> 1 for a LONG time now. https://discord.gg/qjzcRTx https://discord.gg/qjzcRTx => https://discord.com/channels/368267295601983490/701922522836369498/1467939050903310356 https://discord.com/channels/368267295601983490/701922522836... GSoC: https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/ https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/
- Aachen 9mo ago
  Information on Discord visible only if you sign up for it (and afaik, in some countries, upload identification)... that does seem rather in line with the deep web architecture that AnkiHub uses. Maybe this would be good in a ticket or the Anki forums, since it's relevant to the people using and contributing to the app. Here on HN it's now also findable in web searches as a side effect of copying it I guess
  - david_allison 9mo ago
    This is the Discord server which AnkiDroid has used for dev for just under 6 years. Nothing AnkiHub related.

by Aachen 9mo ago

Aachen 9mo ago

(Same person as above but felt that this part had a separate purpose so I've moved it into its own comment) The ecosystem is currently such that it seems hard to enshittify it. They say they have no intention of doing that and I believe it, but their vision of a healthy and good product might involve a fair price (for rich countries at least) whereas it was always free so far Time will tell; it sounds like there's currently no plans either way, but it's also simply open enough that users can always just install the open source software and share decks with each other by whatever file transfer/sharing means. Everything that's already there won't simply go away. I'm going to keep using AnkiDroid and building the language deck I am working on

runarberg 9mo ago
Worth mentioning too is the FSRS algorithm for scheduling cards is implemented in separate libraries which are released under MIT license.
zozbot234 9mo ago
The iOS app has never been free and that's the way most people use it these days. Desktop computing is a niche.
- cosmic_cheese 9mo ago
  This may be true, but as someone who picked up Anki as a desktop app back around 2009 it feels a little crazy. I also can’t imagine making cards on a phone, given how much switching between apps/windows is involved and how poor mobile platforms are at multitasking. It’s difficult to envision it being anything but maddening.
  - 7jjjjjjj 9mo ago
    Desktop for creating cards, mobile for reviewing them.
    - cosmic_cheese 9mo ago
      I prefer a laptop for reviewing because it’s still portable, but also more amenable to comfort for longer sessions and makes spot corrections easier.
    - angeladarby077 9mo ago
      Who is this
  - zelphirkalt 9mo ago
    That's how some people do their "computing" these days, if they do any that deserves the name at all. I had to do some of that on vacation. With a modern phone it's possible, but mentally taxing. Phones feel like MS-DOS operating systems, where each application is fullscreen. Most people are just consumers. This is probably true for Anki decks as well. Only a small minority creates decks, the vast majority only consumes.
- rjh29 9mo ago
  In America perhaps. Android is more popular in other countries, most people I know use Anki for free. The desktop app and sync are useful for editing cards and managing a large collection. Both of those are free too, but for how long?

digiown 9mo ago

> AnkiWeb Worth noting you don't need to use it. Anki comes with a syncserver implementation for a while now, and there are docker images too. It's worth it for the transfer speeds alone IMO. Anki is under AGPL too, which has an anti-DRM clause, so many type of enshittification of anki or their addons (e.g. to prevent sharing of their decks) would be unenforceable too. As such I see no obvious things that would be susceptible to enshittification here.

pityJuke 9mo ago
Aha [0], that is neat. [0]: https://docs.ankiweb.net/sync-server.html https://docs.ankiweb.net/sync-server.html
- bangonkeyboard 9mo ago
  I've tried several times before to install syncserver using those pip instructions, on multiple platforms, without success.
  - david_allison 9mo ago
    Try docker: https://github.com/ankitects/anki/tree/main/docs/syncserver#building-and-running-anki-sync-server-in-docker https://github.com/ankitects/anki/tree/main/docs/syncserver#...
  - dhoe 9mo ago
    Just as a counterpoint, to avoid people getting the wrong idea about the complexity involved - I use it and it took literally minutes. The most confusing part was that the sync settings in Ankidroid referred to Ankiweb.
    - david_allison 9mo ago
      Hey, could you put in an issue, especially regarding the pain points, but also including what 'seems unusual': https://github.com/ankidroid/Anki-Android https://github.com/ankidroid/Anki-Android It's mostly due to time/resource/technical constraints [some of our strings come from a shared backend], but we can do better here, especially if there's now a lot more community interest in the feature. Pull requests welcome! Do feel free to get in touch on the issue/Discord.

eudamoniac 9mo ago

This sounds concerning. Someone ought to back up the public AnkiWeb decks while we still can.

david_allison 9mo ago

> - AnkiDroid is a separate open source project (an Android app). The corporation is hiring the main developer, but it's not yet clear to me whether they're just going to get paid to work more on AnkiDroid or if they're also getting other tasks ---- To copy from my message on Discord: > I’m moving to a full-time position working on Anki [incl. AnkiWeb & AnkiMobile]. I’m really excited about this, but there’s a mountain of pending, somewhat undefined work which will need to be done, and it’ll need my full-time attention for a while. > I’ll still be contributing to AnkiDroid, but I won’t be able to commit as much time as I am doing currently (at least for the first few months while things stabilize). I’ll be here on evenings/weekends, and will be contributing in other ways (hopefully: unified Note Editor, JS addons etc… ), but I expect to slow down with code contributions to ensure I’m staying on on top of PR reviews & general force multiplier work. I’m definitely Org Admin’ing for GSoC over the summer [assuming Google gives us the greenlight], it’s historically been a VERY light role. > In all honesty: I’m expecting things to be business as usual, I have more than enough capacity to keep up with the notification queue. Even if I completely dropped off the planet, we’re a great team and the improvements would keep on flowing. AnkiDroid’s bus factor has been >>> 1 for a LONG time now. https://discord.gg/qjzcRTx https://discord.gg/qjzcRTx => https://discord.com/channels/368267295601983490/701922522836369498/1467939050903310356 https://discord.com/channels/368267295601983490/701922522836... GSoC: https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/ https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/

Aachen 9mo ago
Information on Discord visible only if you sign up for it (and afaik, in some countries, upload identification)... that does seem rather in line with the deep web architecture that AnkiHub uses. Maybe this would be good in a ticket or the Anki forums, since it's relevant to the people using and contributing to the app. Here on HN it's now also findable in web searches as a side effect of copying it I guess
- david_allison 9mo ago
  This is the Discord server which AnkiDroid has used for dev for just under 6 years. Nothing AnkiHub related.