6 ms·

The GPL is a good idea. It's our socieconomic system that isn't.

by saubeidl 9mo ago

noosphr 9mo ago
Everything is a good idea if you assume a world in which it works.
- fragmede 9mo ago
  Communism has entered the chat.
  - saubeidl 9mo ago
    That, for example, would be a better system. One the GPL would work beautifully in.
    - david-gpu 9mo ago
      If you can't explain why it did not work in the past, and can't explain how & why things will be different this time, you don't have a plan. History is a harsh mistress.
      - mediumsmart 9mo ago
        It works, but you need real human staff. And we learn from history that we don’t learn which can be harsh.
      - jibal 9mo ago
        Communism worked in China, for some definition of "worked". Stalinism eventually failed in the USSR and elsewhere. An extensive literature explains these things, as well as explaining different forms and varieties of "communism", and things that people call "communism" but aren't.
        david-gpu 9mo ago
        Communism worked so well in China that as soon as they adopted something resembling free markets in some regions, thanks to Deng Xiaoping, their GDP per capita rose amazingly fast for 3~4 decades. Not exactly a stellar example.
        jibal 9mo ago
        China is still communist. Again communism has worked for some definition of "worked". This is an objective statement, not an endorsement of Chinese communism.
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
    - Muromec 9mo ago
      As a person who had a privilege to live in a commie-block half his life, no, it isn't a better system.
      - jibal 9mo ago
        That was Stalinism, not communism. And there are many ways to implement communism, some of which are better than others.
        Muromec 8mo ago
        If anything, Stalin-era commie blocks are better than the Khruschov-era commieblock I lived in. That particular brand of communism had a tendency to paperclip-optimize everything in a weird way. Like it's really the opposite of capitalism where you go from an MVP to a fully usable product, but in reverse. You would thing it's optimization, but then you regulate the temperature in winter by opening the window. In terms of housing and speaking only from personal experience, European brand of social democracy seems to get it.
PunchyHamster 9mo ago
GPLv3 is a bit overreaching , especially in patent clauses. The GPL as idea is great but the license needs a little more refining The constant fear of lawyers that using some GPL lib will infest entire codebase of their project with GPL is a real problem that stops many corporations from contributing in the first place.
aboardRat4 9mo ago
GPL is a response to the copyright law, which was created for the big corporations to extract rent from ordinary people. It's copyright law which should go away.
- satvikpendem 9mo ago
  Including the hangups people have about AI training as well.
- JuniperMesos 9mo ago
  Copyright law is hundreds of years old and originally was intended to prevent owner-operators of mechanical printing presses from printing and selling copies of some author's books without paying them or getting permission.
  - degamad 9mo ago
    > originally was intended to prevent owner-operators of mechanical printing presses from printing and selling copies of some author's books without paying them or getting permission. We agree that that was its initial stated intention. However, what we have seen in practice is that it has resulted in the owner-operators of those machines banding together to restrict access to the machines unless authors sign exploitative contracts assigning their rights to the operators (which they interpret as "getting permission").
    - JuniperMesos 9mo ago
      The world has changed substantially since the 1710 Statue of Anne; there's a thousand things that you could call the modern-day equivalent of mechanically printing a book, with myriad capital and operating costs and availability. Many ways an independent author or artist can publish their work are extremely cheap and effective. I'm relatively anti-copyright, but that doesn't mean that everyone currently benefiting from copyright law is rent-seeking in an exploitive way.
  - aboardRat4 9mo ago

The GPL is a good idea. It's our socieconomic system that isn't.

noosphr 9mo ago

Everything is a good idea if you assume a world in which it works.

fragmede 9mo ago
Communism has entered the chat.
- saubeidl 9mo ago
  That, for example, would be a better system. One the GPL would work beautifully in.
  - david-gpu 9mo ago
    If you can't explain why it did not work in the past, and can't explain how & why things will be different this time, you don't have a plan. History is a harsh mistress.
    - mediumsmart 9mo ago
      It works, but you need real human staff. And we learn from history that we don’t learn which can be harsh.
    - jibal 9mo ago
      Communism worked in China, for some definition of "worked". Stalinism eventually failed in the USSR and elsewhere. An extensive literature explains these things, as well as explaining different forms and varieties of "communism", and things that people call "communism" but aren't.
      - david-gpu 9mo ago
        Communism worked so well in China that as soon as they adopted something resembling free markets in some regions, thanks to Deng Xiaoping, their GDP per capita rose amazingly fast for 3~4 decades. Not exactly a stellar example.
        jibal 9mo ago
        China is still communist. Again communism has worked for some definition of "worked". This is an objective statement, not an endorsement of Chinese communism.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - Muromec 9mo ago
    As a person who had a privilege to live in a commie-block half his life, no, it isn't a better system.
    - jibal 9mo ago
      That was Stalinism, not communism. And there are many ways to implement communism, some of which are better than others.
      - Muromec 8mo ago
        If anything, Stalin-era commie blocks are better than the Khruschov-era commieblock I lived in. That particular brand of communism had a tendency to paperclip-optimize everything in a weird way. Like it's really the opposite of capitalism where you go from an MVP to a fully usable product, but in reverse. You would thing it's optimization, but then you regulate the temperature in winter by opening the window. In terms of housing and speaking only from personal experience, European brand of social democracy seems to get it.

PunchyHamster 9mo ago

GPLv3 is a bit overreaching , especially in patent clauses. The GPL as idea is great but the license needs a little more refining The constant fear of lawyers that using some GPL lib will infest entire codebase of their project with GPL is a real problem that stops many corporations from contributing in the first place.

aboardRat4 9mo ago

GPL is a response to the copyright law, which was created for the big corporations to extract rent from ordinary people. It's copyright law which should go away.

satvikpendem 9mo ago
Including the hangups people have about AI training as well.
JuniperMesos 9mo ago
Copyright law is hundreds of years old and originally was intended to prevent owner-operators of mechanical printing presses from printing and selling copies of some author's books without paying them or getting permission.
- degamad 9mo ago
  > originally was intended to prevent owner-operators of mechanical printing presses from printing and selling copies of some author's books without paying them or getting permission. We agree that that was its initial stated intention. However, what we have seen in practice is that it has resulted in the owner-operators of those machines banding together to restrict access to the machines unless authors sign exploitative contracts assigning their rights to the operators (which they interpret as "getting permission").
  - JuniperMesos 9mo ago
    The world has changed substantially since the 1710 Statue of Anne; there's a thousand things that you could call the modern-day equivalent of mechanically printing a book, with myriad capital and operating costs and availability. Many ways an independent author or artist can publish their work are extremely cheap and effective. I'm relatively anti-copyright, but that doesn't mean that everyone currently benefiting from copyright law is rent-seeking in an exploitive way.
- aboardRat4 9mo ago