3 ms·

Oh yeah, but LLMs ingesting and spitting them out is not piracy. Right.

gruez 8mo ago
Right, because LLMs aren't spitting out textbooks verbatim, or at least are vaguely adding safeguards against it. The students aren't being sued for ingesting pirated books, they're getting sued for sharing them. >The Rights Alliance confirmed it will begin filing civil lawsuits against individual students who are caught sharing even a single digital textbook.
- joe_mamba 8mo ago
  >because LLMs aren't spitting out textbooks verbatim Except that via the right prompt injections, some LLMs were caught they could spit out chapters of LoTR or Harry Potter 90% verbatim. Safeguards LLMs implemented to prevent the output from being verbatim and to be considered legally transformative, are not legitimizing the IP theft, they're just covering it up, kind of like evidence spoliation. But that's just my opinion, the courts will have to decide this one.
  - gruez 8mo ago
    >Safeguards LLMs implemented to prevent the output from being verbatim and to be considered legally transformative, are not legitimizing the IP theft, they're just covering it up, kind of like evidence spoliation. Is it also "evidence spoliation" for Google Books to resist attempts to dumping out all pages of a book?
    - joe_mamba 8mo ago
      Did Google books obtain the rights to the books legally or illegally?
      - deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
      - gruez 8mo ago
        That's irrelevant on two counts: 1. Not all LLMs were trained on illegally obtained books, and there's at least one court case where the use of illegal obtained books has been ruled illegal (exact sanctions are TBD) 2. In the context of discussing LLMs or students illegally distributing books, whether they obtained it legally is irrelevant. If you bought a book legally, that still doesn't give you the right to photocopy it and send to your friends.
hulitu 8mo ago
Yes, because Microsoft and Disney made the law.

gruez 8mo ago

Right, because LLMs aren't spitting out textbooks verbatim, or at least are vaguely adding safeguards against it. The students aren't being sued for ingesting pirated books, they're getting sued for sharing them. >The Rights Alliance confirmed it will begin filing civil lawsuits against individual students who are caught sharing even a single digital textbook.

joe_mamba 8mo ago
>because LLMs aren't spitting out textbooks verbatim Except that via the right prompt injections, some LLMs were caught they could spit out chapters of LoTR or Harry Potter 90% verbatim. Safeguards LLMs implemented to prevent the output from being verbatim and to be considered legally transformative, are not legitimizing the IP theft, they're just covering it up, kind of like evidence spoliation. But that's just my opinion, the courts will have to decide this one.
- gruez 8mo ago
  >Safeguards LLMs implemented to prevent the output from being verbatim and to be considered legally transformative, are not legitimizing the IP theft, they're just covering it up, kind of like evidence spoliation. Is it also "evidence spoliation" for Google Books to resist attempts to dumping out all pages of a book?
  - joe_mamba 8mo ago
    Did Google books obtain the rights to the books legally or illegally?
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
    - gruez 8mo ago
      That's irrelevant on two counts: 1. Not all LLMs were trained on illegally obtained books, and there's at least one court case where the use of illegal obtained books has been ruled illegal (exact sanctions are TBD) 2. In the context of discussing LLMs or students illegally distributing books, whether they obtained it legally is irrelevant. If you bought a book legally, that still doesn't give you the right to photocopy it and send to your friends.

hulitu 8mo ago

Yes, because Microsoft and Disney made the law.