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We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]
- NoiseBert69 9mo agoI don't trust these numbers for Germany. Why? Have a look at all the Tarifunternehmen salaries. 80k-90k€ is pretty much a standard salary you can reach after 5 years (with maybe changing your position once within the same company). Feels like their dataset has significant sampling gap in some very big industries here.
- tsss 9mo agoVery few companies pay the union salary.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- j7ake 9mo agoIt doesn’t matter honestly, 65k versus 80k after 42% tax on the extra 15k is about 800 euros a month. Not qualitatively different.
- NoiseBert69 9mo agoReality is ~36-38% if you learn to spend money strategically so you can fill a proper tax return. I never paid 42% my entire engineer life.
- klooney 9mo agoWhat are you doing, for the non-Germans? I'm wondering how onerous your tax optimization strategy is.
- NoiseBert69 9mo agoThere are many tools available in Germany that support you doing your tax filings. They have endless questionnaires in (tax law free) easy language that guide you through all the taxing niches. They not only respect all rules regarding the laws but also the latest jurisprudence. Like: If you have a lockable, separate office and work (almost) exclusively from home, you can basically deduct the entire room for tax purposes (rent + electricity + heating + insurance + etc). That can make a huge chunk.
- KellyCriterion 9mo ago....but wait until Finanzamt comes along and measures the size and checks with a controller if this room is really ONLY for work - if there is the slightest sign that this room maybe used for other things, your plan is gone. Even an additional single sofa/couch can crush this plan. And: If you say the room is worth 500€, you dont get back this 500€ with yearly tax declaration - you only get this amount deducted from total income, rising your after-tax income a little bit. In fact, with this solution you loose a room PLUS some money - rather rent out the room 1 week per AirBnB and pocket this in cash and you are fine. Source: I was once hit by them with these rules.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- iso1631 9mo agoOK that's an extra €20 a week, doesn't really change the point
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- iso1631 9mo ago€65k is $77k is £56k. Takehome is 61% Germany, 76% UK, 77% US €80k is $94k is £69k. Takehome is 60% Germany, 73% UK, 75% US If Germany taxed at US rates at €65k it would be an extra €867 a month, "Not qualitatively different" When US IT jobs are on twice the salary ($150-200k or €130-160k) that's a hell of a lot bigger impact than the tax. US https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator UK https://listentotaxman.com/ https://listentotaxman.com/ Germany https://www.how-to-germany.com/income-tax-calculator/ https://www.how-to-germany.com/income-tax-calculator/
- stockresearcher 9mo ago> 800 euros a month. Not qualitatively different. Put 800 euro a month into an investment account and you’re a millionaire by age 50.
- etyhhgfff 9mo agoCompound interest is a think but we wont be millionaires by age 50, especially in modern times where people study long and start working in their 30s.
- _tk_ 9mo agoAgree with the sentiment that the numbers for Germany - and I would say Switzerland as well - are not on the level.
- rockyj 9mo agoYeah, the numbers in Germany are not so rosy. If these numbers are true, we are looking at - - An "average" salary of around 65K / year - This after (an average of) 5-6 rounds of interviews - 6 months of "probation", with only 2 weeks of notice - And all after 4-6 years of degree/s and 4-5 years of experience (so around 10 years of investment) Then after taxation 65K annually means around 3500/month in pocket. Then with the current prices - around 1200 goes in rent alone. Not a lot of room to spend after that. Then, prices keep going up and even a simple (new) car is around 20,000. Not to mention the stress / savings you have to keep since people can be let go anytime. To top it, there is a ceiling in Germany - unless you are extra-ordinary forget making above 100K ever even after 25 years of experience. IT / software dev is a "barely survivable" kind of job in Germany right (sadly) now. I do not recommend it to kids in school/uni anymore (again unfortunately).
- nasmorn 9mo agoBut are they? A Berlin startup was paying this average salary to the Indian/Pakistani devs they sponsored and fully expected to jump ship in the next 12 months. Why would they not pay 70k-75k and have your pick in the upper half of the domestic market.
- nine_k 9mo agoMaybe recent immigrants were the key demographic polled? That would easily describe the skew.
- kuerbel 9mo agoThose numbers can't be right.
- nasmorn 9mo agoIt basically paints 80k/y as the top 10% of senior salary in Germany and I don’t know anyone good working for less. While I only have anecdata this seems way out of touch with what I understand companies expect to pay for their talent
- ahofmann 9mo agoYeah, I've read this report and learned this: don't use their services, they only list jobs, that don't pay well.
- WarmWash 9mo agoAnd this is largely why Europe totally whiffed on the tech explosion of the last 25 years. Keep your golden geese well fed or they will find someone else (or another country) that will.
- hocuspocus 9mo agoThese job portals (SwissDevJobs.ch, GermanTechjobs.de, etc.) are incredibly self-selecting. I don't know any half-serious company posting ads there. And I'm not even talking about top tier or second tier tech companies, just tech adjacent employers paying market average. Same with recruiting agencies matching people with startups. There was talent.io (not sure if it went under or re-branded) sharing ridiculous salary reports. I'm all for transparency, but if your customer portfolio is literally paying bottom quartile salaries, I don't think this helps anyone.
- KptMarchewa 9mo agoFunny how Poland is above Germany, yet I still feel the numbers are low - probably that's just my bubble though.
- helge9210 9mo agoThese reports are not for engineers, but for businesses. HR will point to the statistic and state "we are paying top of the market". In reality, trying to hire a senior engineer below EUR100k is like looking for a black cat in a dark room (you can be certain, the cat is not there anymore).
- trilogic 9mo agoStill no real data on the layoff % in the tech sector, respective to Devs or just in general. Personally I noticed an exodus of Americans towards Europe. IT may as well be considered an intellectual immigration flux. The critical point is that no one has the puta idea of how to use AI to create jobs, so to smooth and balance the shift/layoffs. Time to be creative on it or else we will see employees destroying the machines again like they did in the beginning of the industrial revolution followed by an economical depression.
- xnorswap 9mo ago.NET devs being among the worst paid? Seniors earning barely more than regular devs? Yeah, that feels about right to this UK-based senior .NET developer.
- akmarinov 9mo agoYeah .NET is on its way out it seems. These days it's all JavaScript-something everywhere
- PurpleRamen 9mo agoThis site looks so suspicious. The numbers are very wrong. I looked up two jobs they are listing, which had some very extraordinary wage shown. Both turned out to be wrong, by miles even. By which I mean, they show 80k/year, for a 1k/month paid training. Is this some vibe coded garbage?
- deng 9mo agoWhat actually triggered me most was the apparently big salary bump you can get for "golang" in the UK? That makes no sense, and I'm guessing this is due to small sample sizes.
- precommunicator 9mo agoin question > How much do AI tools improve your productivity at work? there is no 0-10% range
- ushakov 9mo agoi wonder what the stats look like with U.S companies in Germany. probably much higher, especially in areas like Berlin/Munich
- ChrisArchitect 9mo agoTitle is: European Transparent IT Job Market Report 2025 https://germantechjobs.de/en/hub/reports/it-job-market-report-2025 https://germantechjobs.de/en/hub/reports/it-job-market-repor...