6 ms·

> be skeptical of such stories Don't be too skeptical. Most of the people on HN had some big company restrict/kill an account by some BigCo at some point. Mic

by maratd 14y ago

> be skeptical of such stories Don't be too skeptical. Most of the people on HN had some big company restrict/kill an account by some BigCo at some point. Microsoft, Google, eBay, PayPal, Amazon, Facebook, etc. handle millions of accounts. They have automated filters that trigger based on specified criteria that kill your account. Their default response when this happens? Talk to legal. Well, more like write to legal. They don't want to talk to you. The problem? Microsoft has your operating system, Google has your email, eBay has your stuff, PayPal has your money, Amazon has your books, Facebook has your social life, etc. And they can yank all of that away. They don't even press any button. It's triggered automatically by criteria they never disclose beyond a vague TOS. We need to push for a universal option for arbitration by a 3rd party regarding these sorts of unilateral actions. If anything, it will probably reduce the support and legal costs for all of these companies.

jobu 14y ago
Arbitration sounds like a really good idea, but the problem is those arbitration systems are typically paid for by industry, run by industry appointees, and they don't have any incentive to see issues from a consumer point-of-view. I think the solution for books will come from lawsuits and consumer backlash - the same as it did for music. There are still many problems with the Music industry (and RIAA), but they really are leading the curve for the other content industries. Right now you can purchase DRM-free music for relatively cheap from a number of sources. (Apple, Google, Amazon, as well as many independent publishers and artists)
shocks 14y ago
Facebook most certainly does not have my social life. D:
edanm 14y ago
"Don't be too skeptical. Most of the people on HN had some big company restrict/kill an account by some BigCo at some point." Most? That is a pretty serious statement, and I really doubt you can back it up. I don't have statistics on this and don't know where to look for them, but I would guess that the numbers of HN'ers that have had an account closed by a BigCo is actually much less than 1%, never mind more than 50%. Am I grossly underestimating here? Keep in mind that these stories tend to be very popular, so there could definitely be a lot more of these stories around than is statistically correct. P.s. As for one of cletus' point above, I've also noticed a few of these kinds of points eventually bring out more details which tend not to confirm the events, as told in the original posts. Nothing specific to this case of course, I've just caught myself a few times thinking "hmmm, looks like it wasn't such a crystal-clear case of the company being wrong".
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- blake8086 14y ago
  My eBay account was closed because someone disputed a purchase from a family member, and my previous address was the same as theirs. Now it would take 99 other HNers who haven't had accounts closed to cancel me out and keep the ratio at 1%.
  - lotharbot 14y ago
    On the other side of the same coin: HN gets 120k uniques per day (as of October 5, 2011 - http://ycombinator.com/newsnews.html http://ycombinator.com/newsnews.html ). So it will take another 1,199 people who've had accounts closed to put the ratio at above 1%. Of course, this is all incredibly blatant misuse of statistics. What we really need is a poll.
    - EGreg 14y ago
      Then we can argue about the biasedness of the poll
    - kgermino 14y ago
      >What we really need is a poll. Ok, /newpoll... >Sorry, polls are turned off for a while. Now we'll never know.
- ryanlbrown 14y ago
  I tried to make a purchase with PayPal a month or so ago and forgot I was on Tor. They blocked my account until I can verify my location. To verify my location they need to call the landline at my address. Too bad I don't have a landline at my address. There's probably another way to get my account back but I've sort of lost interest now.
  - theatraine 14y ago
    You'd be much more motivated if you have thousands of dollars in your account! A similar thing happened with my business's PayPal. I tried to transfer funds, and they decided that it was a good time to re-verify our location. Since we missed the phone call, we now have to wait for them to mail a letter.
mmariani 14y ago
> The problem? Microsoft has your operating system, Google has your email, eBay has your stuff, PayPal has your money, Amazon has your books, Facebook has your social life, etc. And they can yank all of that away. There's an opportunity here to make an automated backup service for people who want to keep greedy bastards from stealing the stuff they care for. How much someone would pay to have their emails, profiles, or content safe?
- 2muchcoffeeman 14y ago
  Multiple local backups?

by maratd 14y ago

jobu 14y ago

Arbitration sounds like a really good idea, but the problem is those arbitration systems are typically paid for by industry, run by industry appointees, and they don't have any incentive to see issues from a consumer point-of-view. I think the solution for books will come from lawsuits and consumer backlash - the same as it did for music. There are still many problems with the Music industry (and RIAA), but they really are leading the curve for the other content industries. Right now you can purchase DRM-free music for relatively cheap from a number of sources. (Apple, Google, Amazon, as well as many independent publishers and artists)

shocks 14y ago

Facebook most certainly does not have my social life. D:

edanm 14y ago

"Don't be too skeptical. Most of the people on HN had some big company restrict/kill an account by some BigCo at some point." Most? That is a pretty serious statement, and I really doubt you can back it up. I don't have statistics on this and don't know where to look for them, but I would guess that the numbers of HN'ers that have had an account closed by a BigCo is actually much less than 1%, never mind more than 50%. Am I grossly underestimating here? Keep in mind that these stories tend to be very popular, so there could definitely be a lot more of these stories around than is statistically correct. P.s. As for one of cletus' point above, I've also noticed a few of these kinds of points eventually bring out more details which tend not to confirm the events, as told in the original posts. Nothing specific to this case of course, I've just caught myself a few times thinking "hmmm, looks like it wasn't such a crystal-clear case of the company being wrong".

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
blake8086 14y ago
My eBay account was closed because someone disputed a purchase from a family member, and my previous address was the same as theirs. Now it would take 99 other HNers who haven't had accounts closed to cancel me out and keep the ratio at 1%.
- lotharbot 14y ago
  On the other side of the same coin: HN gets 120k uniques per day (as of October 5, 2011 - http://ycombinator.com/newsnews.html http://ycombinator.com/newsnews.html ). So it will take another 1,199 people who've had accounts closed to put the ratio at above 1%. Of course, this is all incredibly blatant misuse of statistics. What we really need is a poll.
  - EGreg 14y ago
    Then we can argue about the biasedness of the poll
  - kgermino 14y ago
    >What we really need is a poll. Ok, /newpoll... >Sorry, polls are turned off for a while. Now we'll never know.
ryanlbrown 14y ago
I tried to make a purchase with PayPal a month or so ago and forgot I was on Tor. They blocked my account until I can verify my location. To verify my location they need to call the landline at my address. Too bad I don't have a landline at my address. There's probably another way to get my account back but I've sort of lost interest now.
- theatraine 14y ago
  You'd be much more motivated if you have thousands of dollars in your account! A similar thing happened with my business's PayPal. I tried to transfer funds, and they decided that it was a good time to re-verify our location. Since we missed the phone call, we now have to wait for them to mail a letter.

mmariani 14y ago

> The problem? Microsoft has your operating system, Google has your email, eBay has your stuff, PayPal has your money, Amazon has your books, Facebook has your social life, etc. And they can yank all of that away. There's an opportunity here to make an automated backup service for people who want to keep greedy bastards from stealing the stuff they care for. How much someone would pay to have their emails, profiles, or content safe?

2muchcoffeeman 14y ago
Multiple local backups?