6 ms·

> running it scares the crap out of me A hundred times this. It's fine until it isn't. And jacking these Claws into shared conversation spaces is quite literal

> running it scares the crap out of me A hundred times this. It's fine until it isn't. And jacking these Claws into shared conversation spaces is quite literally pushing the afterburners to max on simonw's lethal trifecta. A lot of people are going to get burned hard by this. Every blackhat is eyes-on this right now - we're literally giving a drunk robot the keys to everything.

TacticalCoder 9mo ago
I understand that things can go wrong and there can be security issues, but I see at least two other issues: 1. what if, ChadGPT style, ads are added to the answers (like OpenAI said it'd do, hence the new "ChadGPT" name)? 2. what if the current prices really are unsustainable and the thing goes 10x? Are we living some golden age where we can both query LLMs on the cheap and not get ad-infected answers? I read several comments in different threads made by people saying: "I use AI because search results are too polluted and the Web is unusable" And I now do the same: "Gemini, compare me the HP Z640 and HP Z840 workstations, list the features in a table" / "Find me which Xeon CPU they support, list me the date and price of these CPU when they were new and typical price used now". How long before I get twelve ads along with paid vendors recommendations?
- spiderice 9mo ago
  > what if the current prices really are unsustainable and the thing goes 10x? Where does this idea come from? We know how much it costs to run LLMs. It's not like we're waiting to find out. AI companies aren't losing money on API tokens. What could possibly happen to make prices go 10x when they're already running at a profit? Claude Max might be a different story, but AI is going to get cheaper to run. Not randomly 10x for the same models.
  - overgard 9mo ago
    From what I've read, every major AI player is losing a (lot) of money on running LLMs, even just with inference. It's hard to say for sure because they don't publish the financials (or if they do, it tends to be obfuscated), but if the screws start being turned on investment dollars they not only have to increase the price of their current offerings (2x cost wouldn't shock me), but some of them also need a (massive) influx of capital to handle things like datacenter build obligations (10s of billions of dollars). So I don't think it's crazy to think that prices might go up quite a bit. We've already seen waves of it, like last summer when Cursor suddenly became a lot more expensive (or less functional, depending on your perspective)
    - hyperadvanced 9mo ago
      This is my understanding as well. If GPT made money the companies that run them would be publicly traded? Furthermore, companies which are publicly traded show that overall the products are not economical. Meta and MSFT are great examples of this, though they have recently seen opposite sides of investors appraising their results. Notably, OpenAI and MSFT are more closely linked than any other Mag7 companies with an AI startup. https://www.forbes.com/sites/phoebeliu/2025/11/10/openai-spending-ai-generated-sora-videos/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/phoebeliu/2025/11/10/openai-spe...
      - fragmede 9mo ago
        Going public is not a trivial thing for a company to do. You may want to bring in additional facts to support your thesis.
        vidarh 9mo ago
        Going public also brings with it a lot of pesky reporting requirements and challenges. If it wasn't for the benefit of liquidity for shareholders, "nobody" would go public. If the bigger shareholders can get enough liquidity from private sales, or have a long enough time horizon, there's very little to be gained from going public.
        hyperadvanced 8mo ago
        Fwiw I’m not making a comment on companies which have transitioned from private to public or doing any sort of strategic analysis related to that. I’m merely saying if we index on publicly traded companies which have made substantial AI investments, the story isn’t super clear, i.e. as an investor there is not yet a solid positive thesis for the economics of LLM that would rate the tech as a buy. It doesn’t help that information is sparse here and that AI investments in general is clustered around a few megacap stocks with other interests outside of AI writ large
    - lemming 9mo ago
      Sam Altman is on record saying that OpenAI is profitable on inference. He might be lying, but it seems an unlikely thing to lie about.
  - up-n-atom 9mo ago
    Where did u get this notion from? you must not be old enough to know how subscription services play out. Ask your parents about their internet or mobile billings. Or the very least check Azures, AWS, Netflix historical pricing. Heck we were spoiled by “memory is cheap” but here we are today wasting it at every expense as prices keep skyrocketing (ps they ain’t coming back down). If you can’t see the shift to forceful subscriptions via technologies guised as “security” ie. secure boot and the monopolistic distribution (Apple, Google, Amazon) or the OEM, you’re running with blinders. Computings future as it’s heading will be closed ecosystems that are subscription serviced, mobile only. They’ll nickel and dime users for every nuanced freedom of expression they can. Is it crazy to correlate the price of memory to our ability to localize LLM?
    - raincole 9mo ago
      > Ask your parents about their internet or mobile billings. Or the very least check Azures, AWS, Netflix historical pricing. None of these went 10x. Actually the internet went 0.0001~0.001x for me in terms of bits/money. I lived through dial-up era.
- FuckButtons 9mo ago
  I asked Gemini deep research to project when that will likely happen based on historical precedent. It guessed October 2027.
- crystaln 9mo ago
  Seems much more likely the cost will go down 99%. With open source models and architectural innovations, something like Claude will run on a local machine for free.
  - walterbell 9mo ago
    How much RAM and SSD will be needed by future local inference, to be competitive with present cloud inference?
- raincole 9mo ago
  > what if the current prices really are unsustainable and the thing goes 10x? What if a thermonuclear war breaks out? What's your backup plan for this scenario? I genuinely can't tell which is more likely to happen in the next decade. If I have to guess I'll say war.
anabis 9mo ago
Maybe. People have run wildly insecure phpBB and Wordpress plugins, so maybe its the same cycle again.
- DANmode 9mo ago
  > are running
- egeozcan 9mo ago
  Those usually didn't have keys to all your data. Worst case, you lost your server, and perhaps you hosted your emails there too? Very bad, but nothing compared to the access these clawdbot instances get.
  - Terretta 9mo ago
    > Those usually didn't have keys to all your data. As a former (bespoke) WP hosting provider, I'd counter those usually did. Not sure I ever met a prospective "online" business customer's build that didn't? They'd put their entire business into WP installs with plugins for everything. Our step one was to turn WP into static site gen and get WP itself behind a firewall and VPN, and even then single tenant only on isolated networks per tenant. To be fair that data wasn't ALL about everyone's PII — until by ~2008 when the Buddy Press craze was hot. And that was much more difficult to keep safe.
charcircuit 9mo ago
It turns out the lethal trifecta is not so lethal. Should a business avoid hiring employees since technically employees can steal from the cash register. The lethal trifecta is about binary security. Either the data can be taken or it can't. This may be overly cautious. It may be possible that hiring an employee has a positive expected value when when you account for the possibility of one stealing from the cash register.
- naruhodo 9mo ago
  Employees are humans and therefore subject to the law. There are remedies. And you can point a camera at the cash register. Who are you going to arrest and/or sue when you run a chat bot "at your own risk" and it shoots you in the foot?
  - charcircuit 9mo ago
    If your chatbot provided you 1.5 feet worth of value before shooting your foot it may have been worth it. The optimal self damage to maximize total value may be non 0.
    - pixl97 9mo ago
      >The optimal self damage to maximize total value may be non 0. This is the calculus that large companies use all the time when committing acts that are 'most likely' illegal. While they may be fined million of dollars they at least believe they'll make 10s to 100s of millions on said action. Now, for you as an individual things are far more risky. You don't have a nest of heathen lawyers to keep you out of trouble. You can't bully nation states, government entities, or even other large companies. You individually may be held civilly or criminally liable if things go bad enough.
      - charcircuit 9mo ago
        It's not that deep. Most people are not having their agents break the law for them.
p0nce 9mo ago
If you peruse molthub and moltbook you'll see the agents have already built six or seven such social networks. It is terrifying.
- deadbabe 9mo ago
  Even an OnlyMolts!!

TacticalCoder 9mo ago

I understand that things can go wrong and there can be security issues, but I see at least two other issues: 1. what if, ChadGPT style, ads are added to the answers (like OpenAI said it'd do, hence the new "ChadGPT" name)? 2. what if the current prices really are unsustainable and the thing goes 10x? Are we living some golden age where we can both query LLMs on the cheap and not get ad-infected answers? I read several comments in different threads made by people saying: "I use AI because search results are too polluted and the Web is unusable" And I now do the same: "Gemini, compare me the HP Z640 and HP Z840 workstations, list the features in a table" / "Find me which Xeon CPU they support, list me the date and price of these CPU when they were new and typical price used now". How long before I get twelve ads along with paid vendors recommendations?

spiderice 9mo ago
> what if the current prices really are unsustainable and the thing goes 10x? Where does this idea come from? We know how much it costs to run LLMs. It's not like we're waiting to find out. AI companies aren't losing money on API tokens. What could possibly happen to make prices go 10x when they're already running at a profit? Claude Max might be a different story, but AI is going to get cheaper to run. Not randomly 10x for the same models.
- overgard 9mo ago
  From what I've read, every major AI player is losing a (lot) of money on running LLMs, even just with inference. It's hard to say for sure because they don't publish the financials (or if they do, it tends to be obfuscated), but if the screws start being turned on investment dollars they not only have to increase the price of their current offerings (2x cost wouldn't shock me), but some of them also need a (massive) influx of capital to handle things like datacenter build obligations (10s of billions of dollars). So I don't think it's crazy to think that prices might go up quite a bit. We've already seen waves of it, like last summer when Cursor suddenly became a lot more expensive (or less functional, depending on your perspective)
  - hyperadvanced 9mo ago
    This is my understanding as well. If GPT made money the companies that run them would be publicly traded? Furthermore, companies which are publicly traded show that overall the products are not economical. Meta and MSFT are great examples of this, though they have recently seen opposite sides of investors appraising their results. Notably, OpenAI and MSFT are more closely linked than any other Mag7 companies with an AI startup. https://www.forbes.com/sites/phoebeliu/2025/11/10/openai-spending-ai-generated-sora-videos/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/phoebeliu/2025/11/10/openai-spe...
    - fragmede 9mo ago
      Going public is not a trivial thing for a company to do. You may want to bring in additional facts to support your thesis.
      - vidarh 9mo ago
        Going public also brings with it a lot of pesky reporting requirements and challenges. If it wasn't for the benefit of liquidity for shareholders, "nobody" would go public. If the bigger shareholders can get enough liquidity from private sales, or have a long enough time horizon, there's very little to be gained from going public.
      - hyperadvanced 8mo ago
        Fwiw I’m not making a comment on companies which have transitioned from private to public or doing any sort of strategic analysis related to that. I’m merely saying if we index on publicly traded companies which have made substantial AI investments, the story isn’t super clear, i.e. as an investor there is not yet a solid positive thesis for the economics of LLM that would rate the tech as a buy. It doesn’t help that information is sparse here and that AI investments in general is clustered around a few megacap stocks with other interests outside of AI writ large
  - lemming 9mo ago
    Sam Altman is on record saying that OpenAI is profitable on inference. He might be lying, but it seems an unlikely thing to lie about.
- up-n-atom 9mo ago
  Where did u get this notion from? you must not be old enough to know how subscription services play out. Ask your parents about their internet or mobile billings. Or the very least check Azures, AWS, Netflix historical pricing. Heck we were spoiled by “memory is cheap” but here we are today wasting it at every expense as prices keep skyrocketing (ps they ain’t coming back down). If you can’t see the shift to forceful subscriptions via technologies guised as “security” ie. secure boot and the monopolistic distribution (Apple, Google, Amazon) or the OEM, you’re running with blinders. Computings future as it’s heading will be closed ecosystems that are subscription serviced, mobile only. They’ll nickel and dime users for every nuanced freedom of expression they can. Is it crazy to correlate the price of memory to our ability to localize LLM?
  - raincole 9mo ago
    > Ask your parents about their internet or mobile billings. Or the very least check Azures, AWS, Netflix historical pricing. None of these went 10x. Actually the internet went 0.0001~0.001x for me in terms of bits/money. I lived through dial-up era.
FuckButtons 9mo ago
I asked Gemini deep research to project when that will likely happen based on historical precedent. It guessed October 2027.
crystaln 9mo ago
Seems much more likely the cost will go down 99%. With open source models and architectural innovations, something like Claude will run on a local machine for free.
- walterbell 9mo ago
  How much RAM and SSD will be needed by future local inference, to be competitive with present cloud inference?
raincole 9mo ago
> what if the current prices really are unsustainable and the thing goes 10x? What if a thermonuclear war breaks out? What's your backup plan for this scenario? I genuinely can't tell which is more likely to happen in the next decade. If I have to guess I'll say war.

anabis 9mo ago

Maybe. People have run wildly insecure phpBB and Wordpress plugins, so maybe its the same cycle again.

DANmode 9mo ago
> are running
egeozcan 9mo ago
Those usually didn't have keys to all your data. Worst case, you lost your server, and perhaps you hosted your emails there too? Very bad, but nothing compared to the access these clawdbot instances get.
- Terretta 9mo ago
  > Those usually didn't have keys to all your data. As a former (bespoke) WP hosting provider, I'd counter those usually did. Not sure I ever met a prospective "online" business customer's build that didn't? They'd put their entire business into WP installs with plugins for everything. Our step one was to turn WP into static site gen and get WP itself behind a firewall and VPN, and even then single tenant only on isolated networks per tenant. To be fair that data wasn't ALL about everyone's PII — until by ~2008 when the Buddy Press craze was hot. And that was much more difficult to keep safe.

charcircuit 9mo ago

It turns out the lethal trifecta is not so lethal. Should a business avoid hiring employees since technically employees can steal from the cash register. The lethal trifecta is about binary security. Either the data can be taken or it can't. This may be overly cautious. It may be possible that hiring an employee has a positive expected value when when you account for the possibility of one stealing from the cash register.

naruhodo 9mo ago
Employees are humans and therefore subject to the law. There are remedies. And you can point a camera at the cash register. Who are you going to arrest and/or sue when you run a chat bot "at your own risk" and it shoots you in the foot?
- charcircuit 9mo ago
  If your chatbot provided you 1.5 feet worth of value before shooting your foot it may have been worth it. The optimal self damage to maximize total value may be non 0.
  - pixl97 9mo ago
    >The optimal self damage to maximize total value may be non 0. This is the calculus that large companies use all the time when committing acts that are 'most likely' illegal. While they may be fined million of dollars they at least believe they'll make 10s to 100s of millions on said action. Now, for you as an individual things are far more risky. You don't have a nest of heathen lawyers to keep you out of trouble. You can't bully nation states, government entities, or even other large companies. You individually may be held civilly or criminally liable if things go bad enough.
    - charcircuit 9mo ago
      It's not that deep. Most people are not having their agents break the law for them.

p0nce 9mo ago

If you peruse molthub and moltbook you'll see the agents have already built six or seven such social networks. It is terrifying.

deadbabe 9mo ago
Even an OnlyMolts!!