6 ms·
50 years ago, a young Bill Gates took on the 'software pirates'
- ThrowawayR2 8mo agoThe person authoring the Post-Open License (discussed in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38783500 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38783500), a paid shared source license in all but name, is the fellow they chose to interview about Gates' letter? How ... ironic. The reasoning behind POL and the growing number of shared source licenses is exactly the same as Gates' letter: developers deserve to get paid for their efforts instead of having their code shared without compensation. Both are a ringing endorsement of Gates' argument, not libre software and the Four Freedoms.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- westurner 8mo agoFrom what was their victim software derived? How much time did it take to write the letter? Is this the one with Noah Wylie? XEROX Alto (PARC ), 86DOS, CPM DOS, BASIC, Xerox Alto (1973) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto The Altair 8800 has an Intel 8080 CPU: Altair 8800: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altair_8800 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altair_8800 Intel 8080 -> Intel 8088 CP/M (1974) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP/M https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP/M DOS > History: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS#History 86-DOS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS : > 86-DOS shared a few of its commands with other operating systems such as OS/8 and CP/M, which made it easy to port programs from the latter. Its application programming interface was very similar to that of CP/M. The system was licensed and then purchased by Microsoft and developed further as MS-DOS and PC DOS. [2] BASIC > History: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASIC_interpreter#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASIC_interpreter#History HP had BASIC on mainframes in the 1960s. This paper (ScholarlyArticle) was published in 1974: "A BASIC Language Interpreter for the Intel 8008 Microprocessor". ACM. (1974) from UIUC: University of Illinois Champagne-Urbana .. archive.org: https://archive.org/details/basiclanguageint658weav/page/n8/mode/1up https://archive.org/details/basiclanguageint658weav/page/n8/... .. scholar: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C43&q=A+BASIC+Language+Interpreter+for+the+Intel+8008+Microprocessor&btnG= https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C43&q=A+B... "What Bill Gates’ first commercial code (Altair BASIC) looks like under the hood" https://maizure.org/projects/decoded-altair-basic/index.html https://maizure.org/projects/decoded-altair-basic/index.html .. https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1o9wk8x/what_bill_gates_first_commercial_code_altair/ https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1o9wk8x/what_b... : Monte Davidoff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Davidoff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Davidoff : > Davidoff was assigned the task of writing floating-point arithmetic routines for Altair BASIC over the summer, when the three of them lived in Albuquerque, New Mexico, where their company was then headquartered.[1] Gates, Allen, and Davidoff managed to write the software without ever seeing the Altair 8800 thanks to a simulator BASIC > History > Microcomputer era: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASIC_interpreter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASIC_interpreter : > In January 1975, the Altair 8800 was announced and sparked the microcomputer revolution. One of the first microcomputer versions of BASIC was co-written by Gates, Allen, and Monte Davidoff for their newly formed company, Micro-Soft. This was released by MITS in punch tape format for the Altair 8800 shortly after the machine itself, [7] showcasing BASIC as the primary language for early microcomputers. > In March 1975, Steve Wozniak attended the first meeting of the Homebrew Computer Club and began formulating the design of his own computer. Club members were excited by Altair BASIC. [8] Wozniak concluded that his machine would have to have a BASIC of its own. At the time he was working at Hewlett Packard and used their TS-BASIC minicomputer dialect as the basis for his own version. Integer BASIC was released on cassette for the Apple I, and was supplied in ROM when the Apple II shipped in the summer of 1977. [9] ..Re: FreeBASIC, Q64, EDIT.COM and its new rust clone; where it's at today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44018152 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44018152
- jordanb 8mo agoAnd if those pirates had been successful young Billy might not have grown up to be such a naughty boy.
- King-Aaron 8mo agoI find it fascinating how this particular sites' users post articles like this while there's so much obscene news about the dude right now.
- jojobas 8mo agoHe was implicated in infidelity and STDs, not kiddie diddling, or was he?
- selecsosi 8mo agoI mean (allegedly) giving your significant other an STD, and then trying to procure secretive meds to give to them so that you don't have to tell them is high up on the list of horrible behavior for a person
- Kapura 8mo agowho is downvoting this? you can just go read about this. it's not a lie.
- dyauspitr 8mo agoPeople that don’t believe it’s that “horrible”.
- dngray 8mo agoNo its because the emails were not written by Bill. They were written by Epstein to himself and were drafts that were never sent see above https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46867505 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46867505
- logicchains 8mo agoThey were drafted by Epstein on behalf of Bill's (former) doctor; there's no knowing whether the doctor actually sent it or not.
- jojobas 8mo agoMicrosoft quickly learned to pick their battles and basically left Windows anti-piracy features at "just about anyone will be able to do it" level, pretty much only going after large dodgy companies. MS benefited enormously from all the piracy in developing countries, around teenage tinkerers and so on.
- kens 8mo agoSeriously, I consider this to be Microsoft's key innovation: the idea that people should pay for software and that people should be forced to pay for software.
- smackeyacky 8mo agoThe payment for software was well established on big iron by the 1970s before Microsoft were established
- fuzzfactor 8mo agoThat was supposed to be enough. It was well-accepted even at big companies like HP, microcomputers that fit on a desk were intended for individual "owners" to get the most out of the electronics by widely sharing programs so each person in that particular hardware ecosystem from the beginning could build on everybody else's work. "Teams" weren't supposed to be necessary. At least for the utility type of things that there was the most widespread need for. Nobody dreamed of making an improvent to something like a file manager and not contributing it to a newsletter. There's no faster way to move ahead when you're talking about technology. Something truly novel would probably be expected to receive a patent, otherwise code itself was not copyrighted like it can be today. Most people considered code to be the part of the computer that you programmed in yourself, and everybody needed as many sources as possible to learn from or nobody was going to get as far as the electronics were capable of. Everybody was expected to freely run all kinds of things that other people wrote, otherwise how are best practices supposed to arise? This was before PC's or even Apples, these were industrial HP's not hobbyists using them at home. These were microprocessor devices, built to be ideally affordable like nothing else, just the opposite of a mainframe which had always been out-of-reach for almost all aspiring programmers. The idea was for nothing about them to cost money for the user unless there was absolutely no other way. And then it needed to be attractively priced. Nothing else could be considered suitable. Most of the code to do most anything that most anybody was doing, was supposed to be easily available without actual business transactions. So the only programming you had to do yourself was mainly the specialized stuff for your own unique requirements beyond that. And that was supposed to get easier constantly because everything else was moving forward for every user in unison. The sky was the limit if microprocessors could catch on and everybody get the most they have to offer. After a few decades at the rate it was going? Sheesh. Like nothing else can compare to, that part was getting easier all the time as everything was building upon the continuous progress everyone with that type hardware was making. Until Gates came along and did this.
- asdefghyk 8mo agoBill Gates was a ruthless and predatory business man. It is well known - Used to build in deliberate incompatibilities with the Windows
- margorczynski 8mo agoRecent news show he's not only predatory business-wise.
- fuzzfactor 8mo agoLike I said in the other submission; By the time people realized he wanted all the booty for himself, it was too late :\
- renewiltord 8mo agoAnd today, half a century later, most HN and Reddit software people are enthusiasts about software licenses. Followers, no doubt, of this philosophy.
- asdefghyk 8mo agoIs not generally well known but Microsoft stole the idea of product activation ( as used in Windows XP and more ) and copied the methodology of the activation parameters etc from the guy that invented and patented it . There was a big court case about it and appeals , it ended with Microsoft having to pay penalty of (I recall ) $250M USD . There is very brief info on this wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ric_Richardson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ric_Richardson There is a much more detailed video by Ric RIchardson around I will see if I can find it and post the link ..... OK found the link. https://rss.com/podcasts/unemployable/1485621/ https://rss.com/podcasts/unemployable/1485621/ This link has blurb for another entrepreneur company, just ignore / skip that. There is a part where the inventor gives detailed info about the court battle with Microsoft and technical details of his product activation technology.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- metadat 8mo agoThe irony of stealing product activation is WOW :) welcome to capitalism.
- apples_oranges 8mo agowelcome to humanity: do as I say, not as I do
- asdefghyk 8mo agoOne other thing , if you want to know all the dodgy court cases Microsoft got involved in and the penalty's that had to pay- it will be mentioned / disclosed in their annual financial reports - since these large amounts , even possible amounts needed to be advised to shareholders in case /if/when they lost ..... I should add a party to the court case , disclosed the amount Cira $250M USD even though in wikipedia says its not disclosed ....
- flomo 8mo agoThey might have stolen the "patented method" (and i know how much u guys love patents), but they certainly did not steal the "idea". Software has had all sorts of horrible copy-protection for decades before this was introduced.
- snvzz 8mo agoWe are still trying to recover from the damage done.
- swagtricker 8mo agoOf course, he left out the fact that the $40,000.00 USD worth of computer time was stolen from a US government owned computer on loan to one of his professors. He didn't actually PAY $40k USD or even raise funds to cover the equivalent value of the stolen computer time. Gates is a thief, and this was just his first big heist. I was always of the opinion that he US government should have gotten a cut of MS BASIC since it couldn't have been built without the modified emulator handling the ALTAIR 8080 assembly instructions.
- adrians1 8mo agoI don't get what I should be angry about here? That Bill Gates wrote something when he was 20? 20 year olds say stupid things all the time. Think about you when you were 20.
- asdefghyk 8mo agoThere is more that should be said about this story. About Bill gates complaining about software pirates steal ing Microsoft software When Microsoft grew large , rich and much more powerful, they where know to steal ideas from small companies . Companies that did not have financial resources to proceed with a some what court case. Since Microsoft had much larger financial resources. Consider These are some Google results for " Microsoft copied IP from smaller companies where they could " AI Overview Microsoft has faced numerous lawsuits and allegations of copying intellectual property (IP) from smaller companies and competitors throughout its history, with some cases resulting in large fines and legal orders. Specific examples include: i4i: In 2011, the U.S. Supreme Court denied a Microsoft appeal against a $290 million verdict for infringing on a small Canadian company's patent related to a text manipulation tool used in Microsoft Word 2003 and 2007. Burst.com: Microsoft was sued by Burst.com, which alleged that Microsoft stole its patented media transmission technology and incorporated it into Windows Media Player 9 after a two-year collaboration that ended without a licensing agreement. Apple: In 1988, Apple sued Microsoft, alleging that Windows 2.0 copied 189 different elements of the Macintosh operating system user interface. This case was eventually settled. The original graphical user interface (GUI) technology used by both Apple and Microsoft was initially developed at Xerox's PARC labs. Disk Doubling Software: According to one report, Microsoft was accused of examining a third party's disk doubling software under the pretense of licensing it, only to produce a nearly identical "independently developed" product that even included the original's disabled test code and comments. This resulted in Microsoft paying millions in a settlement. Netscape and Antitrust Concerns: Microsoft's business practices, particularly its inclusion of Internet Explorer with Windows to undermine competitor Netscape, led to a major antitrust lawsuit by the U.S. government in the late 1990s and early 2000s, which found Microsoft had engaged in unlawful monopolization. These cases have contributed to a perception that Microsoft, in its pursuit of market dominance, has historically leveraged its powerful position to appropriate technology from smaller entities AI Overview Microsoft has faced numerous lawsuits and allegations of copying intellectual property (IP) from smaller companies and competitors throughout its history, with some cases resulting in large fines and legal orders. Specific examples include: i4i: In 2011, the U.S. Supreme Court denied a Microsoft appeal against a $290 million verdict for infringing on a small Canadian company's patent related to a text manipulation tool used in Microsoft Word 2003 and 2007. Burst.com: Microsoft was sued by Burst.com, which alleged that Microsoft stole its patented media transmission technology and incorporated it into Windows Media Player 9 after a two-year collaboration that ended without a licensing agreement. Apple: In 1988, Apple sued Microsoft, alleging that Windows 2.0 copied 189 different elements of the Macintosh operating system user interface. This case was eventually settled. The original graphical user interface (GUI) technology used by both Apple and Microsoft was initially developed at Xerox's PARC labs. Disk Doubling Software: According to one report, Microsoft was accused of examining a third party's disk doubling software under the pretense of licensing it, only to produce a nearly identical "independently developed" product that even included the original's disabled test code and comments. This resulted in Microsoft paying millions in a settlement. Netscape and Antitrust Concerns: Microsoft's business practices, particularly its inclusion of Internet Explorer with Windows to undermine competitor Netscape, led to a major antitrust lawsuit by the U.S. government in the late 1990s and early 2000s, which found Microsoft had engaged in unlawful monopolization. These cases have contributed to a perception that Microsoft, in its pursuit of market dominance, has historically leveraged its powerful position to appropriate technology from smaller entities
- asdefghyk 8mo agoMicrosoft allowed piracy to gain a competitive advantage. To allow their software to be entrenched. Not so much these days because lots pirated softwave is now a VECTOR for malware. Im not sure if the next part of my writing is allowed ... but here goes ... This google search link explains this in a much more fluet situation than I can. Specifically the AI over view https://www.google.com/search?q=Microsoft+allowed+piracy+to+gasin+a+competive+advantage https://www.google.com/search?q=Microsoft+allowed+piracy+to+... My Journey with Microsoft started with Dos3.3 I think. Was a big win 3.1 and Word 2 user ... etc right up to Win 11 now. So I have seen a lot of MS dodgyness over the years.