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Apparently they've deprecated Postgres support and now only recommend sqlite as the storage backend. I have nothing against sqlite but to me this looks like Tai

Apparently they've deprecated Postgres support and now only recommend sqlite as the storage backend. I have nothing against sqlite but to me this looks like Tailscale actively signaling what they think the expected use of headscale is.

athrowaway3z 8mo ago
I dont understand what these two have to do with anything? The db-use is almost trivial, and SQLite can be embedded. Why would we want wasted effort and configuration complexity on supporting postgres?
- flammafex 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - prmoustache 8mo ago
    With that kind of logic you wouldn't need headscale and would just ask your favorite LLM to write a similar tool for your with your own requirements and nothing else.
    - flammafex 8mo ago
      No, not really necessary to extrapolate the logic any further. You have deemed a very specific and focused task as "wasted effort." So the logic leads to putting in the effort you do not find "wasteful" and outsource the remainder to the LLM do this very specific thing.
ghrl 8mo ago
https://headscale.net/stable/about/faq/#scaling-how-many-clients-does-headscale-support https://headscale.net/stable/about/faq/#scaling-how-many-cli... > Scaling / How many clients does Headscale support? > It depends. As often stated, Headscale is not enterprise software and our focus is homelabbers and self-hosters. Of course, we do not prevent people from using it in a commercial/professional setting and often get questions about scaling. > Please note that when Headscale is developed, performance is not part of the consideration as the main audience is considered to be users with a modest amount of devices. We focus on correctness and feature parity with Tailscale SaaS over time. [...] > Headscale calculates a map of all nodes that need to talk to each other, creating this "world map" requires a lot of CPU time. When an event that requires changes to this map happens, the whole "world" is recalculated, and a new "world map" is created for every node in the network. [...] > Headscale will start to struggle when [there are] e.g. many nodes with frequent changes will cause the resource usage to remain constantly high. In the worst case scenario, the queue of nodes waiting for their map will grow to a point where Headscale never will be able to catch up, and nodes will never learn about the current state of the world. I find that quite interesting and it is one of the reasons I've not really considered trying out Headscale myself.
- fooqux 8mo ago
  Why? Makes perfect sense to me. Designing a product with a specific use case in mind is good. When you've got the limited resources of am open source volunteer project, trying to solve every problem is a recipe for burnout. If it can even be done.
- eikenberry 8mo ago
  > Headscale is not enterprise software I mean this is a great advertisement in and of itself. Something being considered "enterprise software" means it will have 90% more features than needed, the code will be a combination of dozens of different mid-level devs new perfect abstractions and will only test code paths through all those features that the original enterprise valued. I.E. it is great if you work in an enterprise as it will generate a lot of work with an easy scapegoat.
tucnak 8mo ago
Yeah, Headscale people don't hide that it's a toy. I didn't get a homelab full of datacentre-grade equipment because I want to use toy, nonscaling solutions with vastly incomplete feature sets, but for the exact opposite reason. On a different note; the HN obsession with SQLite these days is getting a bit tiresome.
jscd 8mo ago
Tailscale itself only uses sqlite[1], so I’m not sure if that really holds in this case. [1]: https://tailscale.com/blog/database-for-2022 https://tailscale.com/blog/database-for-2022
- markonen 8mo ago
  TIL! My problem with them requiring sqlite was that I assumed it would make a high availability setup either hard or impossible. Maybe that's not true, but definitely off the beaten path for headscale.
  - xanthor 8mo ago
    Headscale only supports a single control node.
  - dwedge 8mo ago
    I suppose there's always the old fashioned way of using drbd with heartbeat
khana 8mo ago
[dead]

athrowaway3z 8mo ago

I dont understand what these two have to do with anything? The db-use is almost trivial, and SQLite can be embedded. Why would we want wasted effort and configuration complexity on supporting postgres?

flammafex 8mo ago
[flagged]
- prmoustache 8mo ago
  With that kind of logic you wouldn't need headscale and would just ask your favorite LLM to write a similar tool for your with your own requirements and nothing else.
  - flammafex 8mo ago
    No, not really necessary to extrapolate the logic any further. You have deemed a very specific and focused task as "wasted effort." So the logic leads to putting in the effort you do not find "wasteful" and outsource the remainder to the LLM do this very specific thing.

ghrl 8mo ago

https://headscale.net/stable/about/faq/#scaling-how-many-clients-does-headscale-support https://headscale.net/stable/about/faq/#scaling-how-many-cli... > Scaling / How many clients does Headscale support? > It depends. As often stated, Headscale is not enterprise software and our focus is homelabbers and self-hosters. Of course, we do not prevent people from using it in a commercial/professional setting and often get questions about scaling. > Please note that when Headscale is developed, performance is not part of the consideration as the main audience is considered to be users with a modest amount of devices. We focus on correctness and feature parity with Tailscale SaaS over time. [...] > Headscale calculates a map of all nodes that need to talk to each other, creating this "world map" requires a lot of CPU time. When an event that requires changes to this map happens, the whole "world" is recalculated, and a new "world map" is created for every node in the network. [...] > Headscale will start to struggle when [there are] e.g. many nodes with frequent changes will cause the resource usage to remain constantly high. In the worst case scenario, the queue of nodes waiting for their map will grow to a point where Headscale never will be able to catch up, and nodes will never learn about the current state of the world. I find that quite interesting and it is one of the reasons I've not really considered trying out Headscale myself.

fooqux 8mo ago
Why? Makes perfect sense to me. Designing a product with a specific use case in mind is good. When you've got the limited resources of am open source volunteer project, trying to solve every problem is a recipe for burnout. If it can even be done.
eikenberry 8mo ago
> Headscale is not enterprise software I mean this is a great advertisement in and of itself. Something being considered "enterprise software" means it will have 90% more features than needed, the code will be a combination of dozens of different mid-level devs new perfect abstractions and will only test code paths through all those features that the original enterprise valued. I.E. it is great if you work in an enterprise as it will generate a lot of work with an easy scapegoat.

tucnak 8mo ago

Yeah, Headscale people don't hide that it's a toy. I didn't get a homelab full of datacentre-grade equipment because I want to use toy, nonscaling solutions with vastly incomplete feature sets, but for the exact opposite reason. On a different note; the HN obsession with SQLite these days is getting a bit tiresome.

jscd 8mo ago

Tailscale itself only uses sqlite[1], so I’m not sure if that really holds in this case. [1]: https://tailscale.com/blog/database-for-2022 https://tailscale.com/blog/database-for-2022

markonen 8mo ago
TIL! My problem with them requiring sqlite was that I assumed it would make a high availability setup either hard or impossible. Maybe that's not true, but definitely off the beaten path for headscale.
- xanthor 8mo ago
  Headscale only supports a single control node.
- dwedge 8mo ago
  I suppose there's always the old fashioned way of using drbd with heartbeat

khana 8mo ago

[dead]