4 ms·

that's the "evil MS" perspective The sequence of turbo pascal / delphi / c# / typescript which brought us LSP as a sidekick (!) IMHO has benefitted the whole

by froh 8mo ago

that's the "evil MS" perspective The sequence of turbo pascal / delphi / c# / typescript which brought us LSP as a sidekick (!) IMHO has benefitted the whole industry at least as much as "transpile c# to ecma script via typescript" . no. much much much more. I do not see a problem with MS also having an internal use case . you know I wouldn't stop using python "because" Guido now works at MS ...

oaiey 8mo ago
Spot on.
ptx 8mo ago
Python has an elected steering council and core team. The governance process explicitly tries to avoid conflict of interest by disallowing more than two steering council members working for the same employer. See PEP 13 [1]. By contrast, .NET is controlled by Microsoft (with veto over board decisions [2] and code changes [3]), integrates Microsoft's telemetry to send your data to Microsoft by default [4] and deliberately hobbles features to benefit Microsoft [5]. [1] https://peps.python.org/pep-0013/ https://peps.python.org/pep-0013/ [2] https://dotnetfoundation.org/about/policies/.net-foundation-bylaws https://dotnetfoundation.org/about/policies/.net-foundation-... [3] https://github.com/dotnet/runtime/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md https://github.com/dotnet/runtime/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md [4] https://github.com/dotnet/sdk/issues/6145 https://github.com/dotnet/sdk/issues/6145 [5] https://github.com/dotnet/sdk/issues/22247 https://github.com/dotnet/sdk/issues/22247
- no_wizard 8mo ago
  According to the docs, .NET 10 has hot reload via the cli, unless I'm misunderstanding something: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/tools/dotnet-watch#hot-reload https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/tools/dotnet-w...
- WorldMaker 8mo ago
  The complaint above was that JS was becoming too much like C#, so the steering committee of .NET isn't the one of the original concern. (Also, as pointed out, that "deliberate hobbling" case was litigated in the public square on HN at the time and then revised and "unhobbled" after the outcry.) As far as the other direction, JS has a somewhat similar (but rather more complex) situation to Python with its steering committee being Ecma International's TC39 (Technical Committee 39). Ecma International has similar By-Laws and Rules designed to manage conflict of interest and too much power consolidate in a single employer of committee members. Ecma is maybe even a little "stricter" than Python because its rules consider the companies themselves to be the members, and companies only get one vote no matter how many employees interact with the process. https://ecma-international.org/policies/by-laws/ https://ecma-international.org/policies/by-laws/ https://ecma-international.org/policies/rules/ https://ecma-international.org/policies/rules/

by froh 8mo ago

oaiey 8mo ago

Spot on.

ptx 8mo ago

Python has an elected steering council and core team. The governance process explicitly tries to avoid conflict of interest by disallowing more than two steering council members working for the same employer. See PEP 13 [1]. By contrast, .NET is controlled by Microsoft (with veto over board decisions [2] and code changes [3]), integrates Microsoft's telemetry to send your data to Microsoft by default [4] and deliberately hobbles features to benefit Microsoft [5]. [1] https://peps.python.org/pep-0013/ https://peps.python.org/pep-0013/ [2] https://dotnetfoundation.org/about/policies/.net-foundation-bylaws https://dotnetfoundation.org/about/policies/.net-foundation-... [3] https://github.com/dotnet/runtime/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md https://github.com/dotnet/runtime/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md [4] https://github.com/dotnet/sdk/issues/6145 https://github.com/dotnet/sdk/issues/6145 [5] https://github.com/dotnet/sdk/issues/22247 https://github.com/dotnet/sdk/issues/22247

no_wizard 8mo ago
According to the docs, .NET 10 has hot reload via the cli, unless I'm misunderstanding something: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/tools/dotnet-watch#hot-reload https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/tools/dotnet-w...
WorldMaker 8mo ago
The complaint above was that JS was becoming too much like C#, so the steering committee of .NET isn't the one of the original concern. (Also, as pointed out, that "deliberate hobbling" case was litigated in the public square on HN at the time and then revised and "unhobbled" after the outcry.) As far as the other direction, JS has a somewhat similar (but rather more complex) situation to Python with its steering committee being Ecma International's TC39 (Technical Committee 39). Ecma International has similar By-Laws and Rules designed to manage conflict of interest and too much power consolidate in a single employer of committee members. Ecma is maybe even a little "stricter" than Python because its rules consider the companies themselves to be the members, and companies only get one vote no matter how many employees interact with the process. https://ecma-international.org/policies/by-laws/ https://ecma-international.org/policies/by-laws/ https://ecma-international.org/policies/rules/ https://ecma-international.org/policies/rules/