3 ms·

Yet still lower than other developed nations, especially considering the exorbitant expenditure (per capita) on healthcare.

by N_Lens 9mo ago

0xy 9mo ago
Impossible to compare without controlling for demographics. White people in the US have comparable rates to Europe. Diversity means diversity in health outcomes, which are vastly different between groups.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- Maxatar 9mo ago
  >White people in the US have comparable rates to Europe. No it's not. White non Hispanic population in the U.S. has a life expectancy of 77.5, which is lower than the U.S. average life expectancy and comparable to Eastern Europe, but not Europe as a whole (life expectancy of 81.4).
- mmooss 9mo ago
  That needs clear causal evidence that race somehow causes health outcomes, otherwise there's nothing distinguishing it from the old racial prejudice - now including blaming the victim: There is a lot of evidence of a causal relationship between being non-white and having less access to healthcare, nutrition, and other things that affect health outcomes, and that evidence aligns well with being targets of racial discrimination. When we just repeat baseless claims about race, we risk perpetuating it. I've never seen evidence of a racial difference in accessing health care that is accessible. It's hard to believe skin color would affect that, while it's easy to believe (and witness) that it affects what you have access to.
  - rayiner 9mo ago
    You shouldn’t make an assumption in either direction. There’s clearly a racial aspect to life expectancy—east asian countries tend to have higher life expectancy than other countries with similar GDP per capita: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy-un-vs-gdp-per-capita-wb https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy-un-vs-gdp.... Your argument about access to healthcare based on race doesn’t make sense either. Hispanics in the U.S. live longer than white people, despite having the highest rate of lacking health insurance.
    - mmooss 9mo ago
      > You shouldn’t make an assumption in either direction. The null hypothesis is usually that there is no effect. Otherwise we'd say 'do life forms from the Andromeda galaxy affect climate change? We have no data, so shouldn't make an assumption either way.' Correlations aren't perfect, but you'd need data correlating it with race. East Asia has many other differences such as diet. Why the drive to find an intellectual basis for discrimination based on race? It generally has only reflected biases and has had very bad consequences.
      - rayiner 9mo ago
        We already know the null hypothesis (that there will be no change) is false. So the question here is about finding the cause of why the null hypothesis is false. Ruling out one category of explanations, and, in practice, assuming a different category of explanations, is bad science. It’s also harmful. We know, for example, that south asians develop cardiac problems at lower BMIs than other groups. We know biology is a dominant factor in longevity: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/29/health/longevity-lifespan-age-genes.html https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/29/health/longevity-lifespan.... We need to follow these leads so we can give people the best medical advice. The possibility of bias isn’t an excuse. Doctors have an obligation to address medical differences that are real and exist while not succumbing to bias. You gotta walk and chew gum at the same time.
aeternum 9mo ago
If you exclude obese individuals US life expectancy is quite high. Health is the ultimate marginal good so exorbitant expenditure is relatively logical. You can't take the money with you so it often makes sense to spend on health even assuming extreme diminishing returns.
- 46493168 9mo ago
  >If you exclude obese individuals The obesity rate in the US is 40%. The just-overweight rate is 33%. So unless we really ramp up on tackling obesity, the life expectancy is going be dragged down.
  - cthalupa 9mo ago
    Universal access to GLP1s would almost certainly effectively end the obesity problem. SubQ pen injections are something even most people afraid of needles can get used to quite quickly, so even if the pill forms never get to the same efficacy there's really no reason that they couldn't solve it for most everyone once they go generic and become affordable, or become otherwise subsidized. China already produces the APIs in huge quantities for insanely cheap for sale on the black market, so we know that they can be produced for extremely low costs.
    - 46493168 9mo ago
      And the US has no plans to do it, probably because the cost doesn't even out until 15+ years, outside the timeframe for congressional budget estimates. The tragedy of short term thinking.
      - lotsofpulp 9mo ago
        The US doesn't have to. Rybelsus already costs less than a thousand dollars per month, some of which is offset by reduced spending on groceries/restaurants/coffee/alcohol. This is the even more effective pill that is about to hit the market: https://www.lilly.com/news/stories/what-to-know-about-orforglipron https://www.lilly.com/news/stories/what-to-know-about-orforg... >11. How much will orforglipron cost? >LLilly recently announced an agreement with the U.S. government to expand access to its obesity medicines and reduce patient costs. Upon FDA approval, self-pay patients living with obesity will be able to access orforglipron through LillyDirect's self-pay pharmacy channel with the lowest dose starting at $149 with additional doses up to $399.
rayiner 9mo ago
It’s not clear that healthcare has much to do with life expectancy. The group with the lowest access to healthcare and highest rate of lacking insurance, hispanics, also have the second highest life expectancy. Lifestyle seems to play a huge role in life expectancy. Mormons live 10 years longer than white Americans generally: https://www.deseret.com/2010/4/13/20375744/ucla-study-proves-mormons-live-longer/ https://www.deseret.com/2010/4/13/20375744/ucla-study-proves.... That’s a huge difference—it dwarfs the 2.5 years difference between men in the U.S. and men in the UK.
- hackeraccount 9mo ago
  I strongly agree with this. Those GLP-1 drugs make me wonder just a bit.

Yet still lower than other developed nations, especially considering the exorbitant expenditure (per capita) on healthcare.

by N_Lens 9mo ago

Yet still lower than other developed nations, especially considering the exorbitant expenditure (per capita) on healthcare.

0xy 9mo ago

Impossible to compare without controlling for demographics. White people in the US have comparable rates to Europe. Diversity means diversity in health outcomes, which are vastly different between groups.

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
Maxatar 9mo ago
>White people in the US have comparable rates to Europe. No it's not. White non Hispanic population in the U.S. has a life expectancy of 77.5, which is lower than the U.S. average life expectancy and comparable to Eastern Europe, but not Europe as a whole (life expectancy of 81.4).
mmooss 9mo ago
That needs clear causal evidence that race somehow causes health outcomes, otherwise there's nothing distinguishing it from the old racial prejudice - now including blaming the victim: There is a lot of evidence of a causal relationship between being non-white and having less access to healthcare, nutrition, and other things that affect health outcomes, and that evidence aligns well with being targets of racial discrimination. When we just repeat baseless claims about race, we risk perpetuating it. I've never seen evidence of a racial difference in accessing health care that is accessible. It's hard to believe skin color would affect that, while it's easy to believe (and witness) that it affects what you have access to.
- rayiner 9mo ago
  You shouldn’t make an assumption in either direction. There’s clearly a racial aspect to life expectancy—east asian countries tend to have higher life expectancy than other countries with similar GDP per capita: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy-un-vs-gdp-per-capita-wb https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy-un-vs-gdp.... Your argument about access to healthcare based on race doesn’t make sense either. Hispanics in the U.S. live longer than white people, despite having the highest rate of lacking health insurance.
  - mmooss 9mo ago
    > You shouldn’t make an assumption in either direction. The null hypothesis is usually that there is no effect. Otherwise we'd say 'do life forms from the Andromeda galaxy affect climate change? We have no data, so shouldn't make an assumption either way.' Correlations aren't perfect, but you'd need data correlating it with race. East Asia has many other differences such as diet. Why the drive to find an intellectual basis for discrimination based on race? It generally has only reflected biases and has had very bad consequences.
    - rayiner 9mo ago
      We already know the null hypothesis (that there will be no change) is false. So the question here is about finding the cause of why the null hypothesis is false. Ruling out one category of explanations, and, in practice, assuming a different category of explanations, is bad science. It’s also harmful. We know, for example, that south asians develop cardiac problems at lower BMIs than other groups. We know biology is a dominant factor in longevity: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/29/health/longevity-lifespan-age-genes.html https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/29/health/longevity-lifespan.... We need to follow these leads so we can give people the best medical advice. The possibility of bias isn’t an excuse. Doctors have an obligation to address medical differences that are real and exist while not succumbing to bias. You gotta walk and chew gum at the same time.

aeternum 9mo ago

If you exclude obese individuals US life expectancy is quite high. Health is the ultimate marginal good so exorbitant expenditure is relatively logical. You can't take the money with you so it often makes sense to spend on health even assuming extreme diminishing returns.

46493168 9mo ago
>If you exclude obese individuals The obesity rate in the US is 40%. The just-overweight rate is 33%. So unless we really ramp up on tackling obesity, the life expectancy is going be dragged down.
- cthalupa 9mo ago
  Universal access to GLP1s would almost certainly effectively end the obesity problem. SubQ pen injections are something even most people afraid of needles can get used to quite quickly, so even if the pill forms never get to the same efficacy there's really no reason that they couldn't solve it for most everyone once they go generic and become affordable, or become otherwise subsidized. China already produces the APIs in huge quantities for insanely cheap for sale on the black market, so we know that they can be produced for extremely low costs.
  - 46493168 9mo ago
    And the US has no plans to do it, probably because the cost doesn't even out until 15+ years, outside the timeframe for congressional budget estimates. The tragedy of short term thinking.
    - lotsofpulp 9mo ago
      The US doesn't have to. Rybelsus already costs less than a thousand dollars per month, some of which is offset by reduced spending on groceries/restaurants/coffee/alcohol. This is the even more effective pill that is about to hit the market: https://www.lilly.com/news/stories/what-to-know-about-orforglipron https://www.lilly.com/news/stories/what-to-know-about-orforg... >11. How much will orforglipron cost? >LLilly recently announced an agreement with the U.S. government to expand access to its obesity medicines and reduce patient costs. Upon FDA approval, self-pay patients living with obesity will be able to access orforglipron through LillyDirect's self-pay pharmacy channel with the lowest dose starting at $149 with additional doses up to $399.

rayiner 9mo ago

It’s not clear that healthcare has much to do with life expectancy. The group with the lowest access to healthcare and highest rate of lacking insurance, hispanics, also have the second highest life expectancy. Lifestyle seems to play a huge role in life expectancy. Mormons live 10 years longer than white Americans generally: https://www.deseret.com/2010/4/13/20375744/ucla-study-proves-mormons-live-longer/ https://www.deseret.com/2010/4/13/20375744/ucla-study-proves.... That’s a huge difference—it dwarfs the 2.5 years difference between men in the U.S. and men in the UK.

hackeraccount 9mo ago
I strongly agree with this. Those GLP-1 drugs make me wonder just a bit.